My Milltek

[RSjd]

Is there a difference in output, bhp, when the valves are open or closed? Proven of course.

I have non-res and non-valved, also have decats on the way.

Should hear it coming!!

No idea & i doubt it's even worth the effort in trying as any difference even a dyno would struggle to pick up. I was told that the only difference between non res/non valve & res/valved was the noise & Sport button functionality. I do longer journeys so did not want the extra booming that non res gives over res. Also of course wanted to retain some Sport button functionality so went for valved as well, although opting for valved pushes the price up by about £400.

I know the car pulls stronger with the Milltek, so it's noticable but not a marked difference, so at best i'd say you're talking 2-4BHP at best. Sports cats will make a bigger power difference, but as we now they can also cause big problems, so i decided against taking that risk.

One thing i'm now wondering, having done VMAX on Sunday & post re-map, is if this 60% throttle without Sport & 100% throttle with Sport is still the case?? Apart from the very noticable change in exhaust noise & of course the seats, i noticed no differences in acceleration & no differences in top speed between Sport on/off. Both modes have a noticable shove at 5500RPM.

Hello !

Difference with valves open or closed is about 10Nm torque between 3400-5000 rpm. Max bhp is not different,
because the valves are also open from 5000rpm @ WOT (full throttle) in normal mode. I have some dynoplots to prove, I'll try to place theme here….

Throttle is only 50-60% open also in S-mode till 5500rpm, but only in 1, 2 and 3 gear. From 5500rpm 100%.
S-mode will give 100% throttle in 4, 5 and 6 gear from 0-8250rpm.

Regards,
Jeroen

[SimonH]

Is there a difference in output, bhp, when the valves are open or closed? Proven of course.

I have non-res and non-valved, also have decats on the way.

Should hear it coming!!

No idea & i doubt it's even worth the effort in trying as any difference even a dyno would struggle to pick up. I was told that the only difference between non res/non valve & res/valved was the noise & Sport button functionality. I do longer journeys so did not want the extra booming that non res gives over res. Also of course wanted to retain some Sport button functionality so went for valved as well, although opting for valved pushes the price up by about £400.

I know the car pulls stronger with the Milltek, so it's noticable but not a marked difference, so at best i'd say you're talking 2-4BHP at best. Sports cats will make a bigger power difference, but as we now they can also cause big problems, so i decided against taking that risk.

One thing i'm now wondering, having done VMAX on Sunday & post re-map, is if this 60% throttle without Sport & 100% throttle with Sport is still the case?? Apart from the very noticable change in exhaust noise & of course the seats, i noticed no differences in acceleration & no differences in top speed between Sport on/off. Both modes have a noticable shove at 5500RPM.

Paul,
So, if you still notice the 5.5k rpm kick with your car, do you think its fair to say that the re-map has left the 60% throttle opening until 5.5k rpm unaltered.What im saying is, is that if we could eliminate this throttle restriction, then we could have full throttle when we wanted all of the time?.I reckon if that was the case, the RS4 would feel ballistic much earlier.I wonder if you could have this mapped out?.Its all very interesting, regards, SIMON.

[W8PMC]

Really not sure Simon, as i'm now really confused as i can't understand where & how Sport Modes allows WOT??

Safe to say i still feel a slight surge at 5500RPM in BOTH normal & Sports mode, hence my confusion as i now don't feel any performance or on road difference between the 2 modes. The car (down to the map more than the Milltek) is just quicker in both modes but as said no difference that i can feel.

Me thinks the Throttle scenario with Sport mode is a slight red herring. If what Jeroen (cheers for the plots) is saying is correct, then it's the flaps that give the extra torque & urgency, not the throttle so it WOT is only achievable after 5000RPM then why the surge in both Sport & non Sport mode, unless & if i'm reading this correctly, the valves open regardless at 5000+RPM even if you're in non sport mode. If this is the case then why the surge in Sports mode if the flaps are already open??

My ickle brain now hurts.

[RSjd]

Here you can see "the 5.5k rpm kick" (redline), standard RS4 in 3th gear, Torque(Nm), that's what you feel...
Blueline is 100% throttle opening all the way, plus some more re-map work. So that can be mapped out, SIMON

Regards,
Jeroen

[W8PMC]

Here you can see "the 5.5k rpm kick" (redline), standard RS4 in 3th gear, Torque(Nm), that's what you feel...
Blueline is 100% throttle opening all the way, plus some more re-map work. So that can be mapped out, SIMON

Regards,
Jeroen

Nice one & visually that makes sense, however is the extra few torques (for the Top Gear viewers) down to the Mapping or the zorst flaps & vice versa?? Sport button we know opens the zorst flaps, so i assume they stay open from 0RPM right up to the redline?? In non sport mode, do the flaps ever open or is this ONLY controlled by the Sport button?? Finally, apart from the zorst flaps & the bucket seat bolsters (assuming they're activated), does the Sport Button also alter anything else perfromance wise??

[t_urbo]

Difference between flaps open and shut.......
thumbs up for sex and leave me alone im tired.

[SimonH]

Jeroen,
I take it that those are graphs from your own car?.Who did the mapping for you over there, and does your car have the infamous 5.5k rpm kick, or is it just plain faster all through the rev range, and specifically from earlier on?.Thanks for the input.Regards, SIMON.

[reevesroadster]

Am i missing something here - why not just drive in Sport mode all the time to gain the benefits it offers 100% of the time.

I do understand the question of remapping, but that alters the standard configuration and is therefore IMHO a slightly different sceanrio.

[VARSITY]

Exactly, does the remap have a mode in non-sport and another mode in sport? ie 2 seperate maps?

Why not just put the better map in the non-sport mode and make the sport button just alter the seat and open the valves, for the posuers to utilise.

It doesn't make sense, but then I am coming to the conclusion that a B5 RS4 will be more fun and a better investment.

[RSjd]

@ Paul,
The only difference in Sport-mode is exactly what you said, nothing more !
The only performance win is very small, thanks to the exhaustvalves, 10Nm more @ 4500rpm, as you can see the difference in thirst dynoplot the upper blue and red torque lines.

So there is no max. throttle angle difference in Sport-mode.
This is only gear depending.
In 1, 2 and 3 gear, Throttle is only 50-60% open till 5500rpm, from 5500rpm > 100%. You can see the redline in the second dynoplot, "the 5.5k rpm kick"
In 4, 5 and 6 gear, 100% throttle from 0-8250rpm. See the blueline.

Simon,
Yes they are from my own car. I did the mapping myself. No it has not the infamous 5.5k rpm kick anymore. I mapped it like the blueline, 100% throttle through all gears.
Also exhaustvalves allways open in S-mode, not only from 4000rpm in the 1,2,3 gear.


I don't want to know things better, i only want to give some input in this great forum

Regards,
Jeroen

[SimonH]

Thanks Jeroen,
So do you think the mapping guys over here could map the car in the same manner, with 100% throttle opening at any given rev range?.I suppose its the same idea as the M5, where p400 does not open all the individual throttle butterflys fully, where p500 completely opens them.Nice car by the way, same colour as mine .What suspension is it sat on?.Regards, SIMON.

[W8PMC]

Jeroen, sorry as this is probably me being thick but can you clarify this one point??

I'm not getting the throttle vs exhaust flap scenario?? In sport mode the exhaust flaps are open from 0RPM, however in non sport mode the flaps open at 5500RPM?? This being the case, why do i feel the 5500RPM surge in both Sport & non sport?? Back tracking, are the exhaust flap & throttle alterations (assuming their are any) non dependant on each other?? So the surge at 5500RPM is purely down to the throttle opening fully to 100% which as i think you say only occurs in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears?? & TBH i can't say i've ever noticed the surge in the higher gears although i will try to check this out next week.

I'm sure you've answered this fully already & as above it's probably me just getting confused (easily done), but if you could explain the above in simple terms, i & many others on here would be very appreciative.

Finally, is it only via a re-map that the 100% throttle (assuming that's correct) can be achieved in the lower gears (1st, 2nd & 3rd) from 0RPM & secondly, with your map have you raised the rev limiter?? My guess (could be wrong again) that with other re-maps, the fact that the rev limiter is raised to 8400rpm would even things out when head to head, assuming you've not raised the limiter as well??

[alex_123_fra]

Hi Jeroen,

Thanks for the graphs, very impressive. What I conclude from what has been posted is:

Non Sport mode:
exhaust flaps stay shut until 4,500k rpm in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then open
throttle stays 50-60% open till 5,500 rpm or so in ALL gears

Sport mode:
exhaust flaps open ALL the time from 0-8250rpm
throttle 50-60 % open till 5,500 rpm in 1st, 2nd, 3rd
throttle 100% open 0-8,250 rpm in 4th, 5th, 6th


Could you correct if any of the above is wrong please? I find it all makes perfect sense as in my car, in non-sport mode, the "kick" at 5,500rpm is MUCH more noticeable than in sport mode.

It is actually quite diasappointing to see that there isn't much difference between the 2 modes real world throttle opening. I wonder why audi have employed this 50-60% throttle opening below 5,500 rpm?? Is it for fuel economy?

[RSjd]

Thanks Jeroen,
So do you think the mapping guys over here could map the car in the same manner, with 100% throttle opening at any given rev range?.I suppose its the same idea as the M5, where p400 does not open all the individual throttle butterflys fully, where p500 completely opens them.Nice car by the way, same colour as mine .What suspension is it sat on?.Regards, SIMON.

Hi Simon,
I think so, but it took me a lot of time to find out how to change it …
It's most done for emission/ noise-law reasons…I don't know how to explain it in Englisch very well .

Thanks! Dynamic Ride suspension custom modified ourselves

Regards,
Jeroen

[RSjd]

Jeroen, sorry as this is probably me being thick but can you clarify this one point??

I'm not getting the throttle vs exhaust flap scenario?? In sport mode the exhaust flaps are open from 0RPM, however in non sport mode the flaps open at 5500RPM?? This being the case, why do i feel the 5500RPM surge in both Sport & non sport?? Back tracking, are the exhaust flap & throttle alterations (assuming their are any) non dependant on each other?? So the surge at 5500RPM is purely down to the throttle opening fully to 100% which as i think you say only occurs in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears?? & TBH i can't say i've ever noticed the surge in the higher gears although i will try to check this out next week.

I'm sure you've answered this fully already & as above it's probably me just getting confused (easily done), but if you could explain the above in simple terms, i & many others on here would be very appreciative.

Finally, is it only via a re-map that the 100% throttle (assuming that's correct) can be achieved in the lower gears (1st, 2nd & 3rd) from 0RPM & secondly, with your map have you raised the rev limiter?? My guess (could be wrong again) that with other re-maps, the fact that the rev limiter is raised to 8400rpm would even things out when head to head, assuming you've not raised the limiter as well??

Hi Paul,
Sorry no you don't understand it completely, maybe my Englisch is not very clear, I'm from Holland

No they're not dependant on each other. And Yes, the surge at 5500RPM is purely down to the throttle opening fully to 100% which only occurs in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears !

Finally, you are right, only via a re-map that the 100% throttle (assuming that's correct) can be achieved in the lower gears (1st, 2nd & 3rd) from 0RPM-8350rpm.
Yes, I raised the rev limiter to 8350rpm.
Hope you understand me, I try to explain more/better in the next reply

Regards,
Jeroen