What to do...swap my B5 for a B7????

[Golich]

1st off I've never bought a new car. I never wanted to experience the 1st 3 years depreciation! Never really could afford it and I'd like to think I'm a bit more frugal with my cash.

So I've had my B5 RS4 for 3 years and 2months. The longest I have ever owned a car for. She has 69K miles and in the last couple of months I've been tiring of her, I'm afraid my eye has been wandering but I can't find any other car that is as good an all rounder to match the B5 other than the B7.

Now Brooner and I test drove a B7 about 6 months or so ago and I thought it was a fine car but it just didn't give me that "Ooo I'VE GOT TO HAVE THIS CAR FEELING!" (which secretly I was/am kind of glad about)

But last week I put the B5 in for an oil service and I had a right good bitch to the service manager about the half arsed services I've been getting given that they charge me £90/hr and £93 for 7L of Mobil 1 ESP oil and I spot more things than they do... bla bla bla.

So this time they gave it a REAL good going over and I happy to say they spotted all the little niggles I knew weren't right. However, the upshot of all those little niggles is a £2.5K bill to fix. The biggy is a variable valve timing unit leaking some oil and making a very faint tapping noise. Not particularly expensive in its self (£200) but the up shot is that the front end has to come of as does the timing belt off etc etc. Well there were a couple of other minor seal leaks a sporadic water leak from the small over run pump. Being the fussy bugger that I am I just bit the bullet and told them I want the car A1 and to fix it all and I'd be as well changing the timing belt and all the other belts water pump etc.

So this bill has got me thinking. I think my car is worth about £20ish I've lost £14.5K in just over 3years. The guy I bought it from obviously lost about 16K over the same period but he didn't have any risk to him as he was within the warranty period.

This year I'll have shelled out approx 6K on the car with £1300 on new B7 brakes, £1K on new dampers and anti roll bars, £220 on the DTS, £800 on paintwork tidied up around the car. I've replaced all the rear bushes, I'm about to put all new tyres on it. It's been serviced twice in 10months considering B7 seats on and on...........

So I got to talking with the sales and finace guy. A new 2007 RS4 Avant with the technology pack and sun roof (I'd like to glance at whether my mountain bikes are still attached ) will set me back £55,225.

A deposit of £20K and I'm left with a finance deal of £539/month for 37 months. With a balloon payment of £26,757. I thought this wasn't too bad given that I was paying £665/month for my £34.5K 3 year old B5 less than a year ago with a balloon of £13K. (I paid up early).

But it gets better. If I opt for the full service, maintenance and tyres deal that only adds another £57.95. Well I've been putting £700 of tyres on my car a year which works out at £58/month. So effectively that's 3 years free servicing and a brand new RS4!

Now something doesn't seem right here and I think its due to the great residuals that the B5 kept i.e. £16.5K/£51K = 32% depreciation on a 3year car is bloody good. I just can't see the B7 holding that kind of residual. In any event the monthly cost to me would be considerably cheaper with zero risk and I would be buying a car with no hidden history.

So here I am at 11.15 at night, kind of excited, but questioning the sense of all this expense. Its not that I can't afford it but a 55K car is half the cost of my first house a 2 bed bungalow which to be honest I've hated every minute of the mortgage debt so I've been clobbering it and I'm about a 1-1/2years to paying that off. Buying the RS would probably push me to 2years.

SO I've arrange another test drive this Wed to see if this will push me over the edge.

PS The sales guy tells me they still have allocation left and the production of RS4s stop this April as the new A4 is due out next year - Is that correct?

I'd appreciate some words from you all.

[Norrs2]

With only 69k on yours, and with all that work, £20k seems cheap. I just got mine with 60k on it and due to the condition, I paid (happily) £26k for it.

All those finance options has just made my head spin

B7 is a totally different animal -superb of course, but different. I still have some way to go before I get the urge to change from the B5.

Gook luck with your dilema, you'll need it nice one to have though!

[Andyuk911]

I think it is up to you if you want to spend £66,700 on a £55k car, I would not, but that just me.

[buzzard]

trouble is that with the delectible B5 you have bought into the exclusivity of having 1 of the 400

there making the B7 (still delectible) by the shed load with no limit
this in turn will push the prices down of RS and S models alike.
more about in a changing enviroment.
i love them both and drool all the time (me being a B5 S4 owner)
but if i had the money for both i wouldn't know which to have!!!

[Golich]

Glad to hear £20K seems cheap. I thought so too. I've also been thinking some more about that finance deal - yes a £55K car for as good as £67K definitely takes the shine off it. That's some APR rate and a shed load of cash by most folks standards.

I could save myself half the interest by simply taking the 35K cash out of the mortgage but that REALLY doesn't sit well with me. You can flog a car when times get hard that's not really an option with respect to your house.

Ideally I'd like to wait a year or so but if its true that I won't be able to order a new one after April that unusually puts me off waiting too. I guess I'll either get "That feeling.." tomorrow after the test drive or not!

[njw123]

Went through the same thoughts here.

Loved everything about the B7 RS4, except the following -
1. it has no turbo rush (very hard to give up once you are used to it)
2. its not a ltd edition model. Hard to explain why this is important to me, but all B5 RS4 owners actively sought out their purchase, whereas B7s just seem like some owners bought as it was the top model. Perhaps a better explanation involves the M3. You spot a CSL and you know the owner sought it out, but a normal M3 is owned by many as it was simply the top model.
3. Depreciation. Becasue the first two points aren't met I knew I wouldn't keep it long term and so I'll sell too soon taking a big hit.

For me, the proof is that IF the B7 RS4 had been turbo'ed and ltd edition, I'd have moved heaven and earth to get one.

[GlynRS2]

@ njw123
- interesting comments and certainly I can see the justification you are using to stay satisfied with your own car.
This is no way a criticism of your comments, but from my own personal perspective the fact that the B7 RS4 is not turbocahrged is one of the attractions. I have just sold my rhd RS2 and that was one of only 120 or so remaining examples in the UK, so it is about as limited an edition as you can get. That was never really an issue for me however, although I recognise it may be more important for others. Certainly when I first got the B7 RS4 I did miss that enormous tidal wave surge from the turbo and thought that the RS4 felt a little slow compared to the RS2. However, with more driving of the two cars back to back (as I had both for 6mths) you just recallibrate and I ended up feeling that the RS2 was very sluggish off boost and that overall the RS4 had more useable performance. Against the clock the RS2, B5 RS4 and B7 RS4 all have quite similar performance figures, but the character in which they achieve it is different in each case. The main difference with the B7 RS4 irrespective of power delivery is the feel and handling, which is where the extra development and newer technology really show through. The B7 RS4 feels tight, light and agile with really good feedback at the steering wheel, which is markedly different to any other quattro Audi I have driven (and yes I have driven a B5 RS4).
You last point about depreciation I think has been covered above. If you buy a new car you are always going to be hit by a quite steep initial depreciation but this needs to be balanced by the warranty and the fact that other than routine servicing you should not have to pay for any big ticket maintenance items. The total hit for having bought a new B5 RS4 in terms of depreciation in the first 3 years may well be very similar to the combined maintenance & depreciation hit in years 4-6. Taking things further down the line I owned my RS2 for three years and sold it for the same money that I bought it for, but it had cost me £6K in parts and servicing to keep it in top condition as it is now 12 years old.
For me the main reason for buying a B7 RS4 was to have a thoroughly modern car that represents the top of its class in terms of all round performance. I did the sums and found a way I could afford it (and that will be different for everyone, depending on their individual circumstances). The bottom line is that I have never regretted it once. But hey, we all make our own choices and life would be dull if we all went the same way.

[buzzard]

point well put Glyn
each car is an individual work of art in its own right.
all cars are all things to all people.
so long as our cars tick our boxes.... hey ... what does it matter.
i think that if the car you buy is worth what you pay for it in the beginning then what does it matter what it is worth in the end.
you have lived your dream.

[njw123]

Yes, I quite agree. Each to their own etc..

Ultimately all these cars offer way more than is needed for sensible, legal motoring. We are all here for the the cars put on our faces.

But getting back on thread - today is Wednesday, Golich will have test driven again... its valentines day - will he now be in love?

[Golich]

But getting back on thread - today is Wednesday, Golich will have test driven again... its valentines day - will he now be in love?

ha ha ha I must be a slut - I want my cake and......

Thanks for your thoughts lads.

Well yesterday was an interesting day. There's no doubt the NA engine just doesn't feel as quick and the lack of torque is noticeable and I have a stock B5. I'd really struggle to move down in bhp and torque if I'd been running a chipped B5. I should say my B5 is putting out 365ftlbs when it should be the same torque as the B7 325ftlbs. So that was a bit of a disappointment but that lurvly sounding V8 in combination with the "S-effect" button does go a long way to make up for that and in someway give you the sensation of speed in a different way.

On the handling front, it takes a lot less skill and effort to chuck the B7 around and its much more controllable when drifting yes I had to try the car out properly. The B5 on stock suspension and ARBs is a hell of a handful in the same limited space situation.

However, on both occasions of driving the B7 I've experienced an unexpected and quite unerving LIGHT REAR END moment! The first time it happened, Brooner and I went back to the same corner (with a hump in it) in my car to see what the B5 did. We couldn't replicate the same light rear end and we couldn't decide where the actual problem corner was. The B5 went around all the same corners with no fuss.

So yesterday the same light rear end moment happened again on a different road I know very well and I wasn't expecting the cars significant response. I think it could be related to this new anti roll system and the overall stiffness this gives as the response occurs when travelling very quickly over a significant short dip in the road where the dip only effects one side of the car. The other wheels are on level smooth straight road. So despite travelling on a straight section of road the rear went light and vered a tad to the centre of the road. But I won't hold this against the car as I was moving some and overall the handling is without doubt more chuckable and gives much more fun as a result, which is just as well, as I was sliding all over the place. I'm not sure if this was due to the P-zeros as I've never slid around so much in my B5 for what I'm sure was the same speed into corners. Despite all this I'd still give a BIG thumbs up in handling/driver feedback department.

The seats are fantastic for my skinny bod and really let you know what's going on with the car. Although getting to the handbrake quickly is a tad awkward Not a big deal.

So overall I liked it - I'd just want more torque.

So when I got back to the stealership. I was met with a couple of very pleasant surprises.

First off the price has come down by £1505 as Audi have scrapped the technology pack. Apparently owing to the fact that the current SATNAV unit doesn't fit in the new A4 and they are doing a deal to get rid of the SATNAV units for effectively £500. So oddly you can still make up the technology pack from its individual components but its cheaper. I'm sure the salesman has this wrong but who cares!

Secondly and more importantly, I managed to haggle £102/month off the monthly payment - well actually all I said was I'm not happy with the overall APR (which is hidden) but works out approx 11%. So now its £433 a month with an extra £57 for the servicing/maintenance/tyre option. A no brainer for me as there is no limit on the tyres - within what deemed normal wear and tear for my stated mileage of 12K/year.

So here I am with a VERY big decision to make. I'm going to sit on this for a few days at least until I get my old B5 back and I've driven her again. Its been over a week still waiting for a part.

Question - does the engine slacken off considerably releasing more BHP/torque?

[john1975]

Question - does the engine slacken off considerably releasing more BHP/torque?

As you get further miles under your belt with her, the engine does loosen up and you feel a big difference from 5000rpm+

Have a look on the RS4 forum as this has been talked about before.

[webbah]

Perhaps this can help with your decision. Both attachments show stock and what's possible with chipping concerning HP, torque, and fuel consumption. I've used Digital Tuning on my Porsche's with great results and plan to do this to my B7 after it's broken in.

Cheers,

Webbah

[gIzzE]

Something doesn't add up there with those finance figures, £55k with a £20k deposit and £530 a month over 36 months leaves a balloon of £22k at 7% apr,

So they are charging you 10.5% apr it seems, that's nice of them!!

What about a used one??

If you bought one a couple of months old for £50k you would be pauing £400 a month with the same deposit and a balloon of £22k at 7% apr.

Or if you kept the balloon at £25k you would only have to pay £290 a month at 7% apr.



If you managed to get someone to do one of the avants that are around for £48k, and still kept with the original balloon of £26k, you would only be paying £200 a month if you had a £20k deposit.



Makes Audi finance look a little steep, don't you think?

[Golich]

Yes the first quote of £530 was waay to high. See my second post. They dropped £102/m when like you I did the sums and thought it was steep.

The new figure is still not cheap. I worked it out VERY roughly to be approx 8-9%.

The problem is last time around I found £25K is about the limit for personal borrowing from most lenders. I also considered a deposit of £30K and make up the 24K from another lender but £24K over 5yrs is £416/month without interest so probably closer to £500/m

I could take £34K out of the mortgage but I really want to leave that in there. That’s the debt I’m REALLY not comfortable with and want rid off BIG time so I’m pilling HUGE amounts into that weekly if I stand any chance of paying off in 2yrs which makes £400/month for 3 yrs seem like a drop in the ocean.

Also I come out of my current mortgage deal in June. By that time I’m sure we will have seen another interest rate rise and depending on what deal I can get a fixed or tracker could vary and I predict this boom time we have all been living in for years is going to burst in the next couple of years hence why I’m nailing the mortgage big time. If a down turn comes I’ll simple hand the car back and walk away that’s not an option with my modest house.

So its more about an acceptable cost/m to have the latest toy that gives me pleasure with minimal risk and displeasure while still allowing me to pile into the mortgage.

The B5 is a great car, but things like another £2K on mapping + extras and £3+K on B7 seats are calling to me and after all that it still won’t change my wandering eye! It would be so much easier and cheaper if I was just as happy and excited with my B5 today as the day I was when I first got her – it’s a rather annoying trait in us humans, why can’t we be happy with our lot? There’s always something new and perceivably better around the corner.

But hey I’m a lucky bugger really…….O what to do.

Still not got mine back yet…. Watch this space if you’ve got nothing better to do than read the ramblings of a luck man.

[Brooner]

Well you kept that quite you fecker the repayments seem pritty good apecialy with the sevicesing deal lot cheaper than my B5 from new i payed £650 pm and a baloon of 25k so if it was me i would probably take the plunge.which for me now will have to be next year (in the process of buying a new house) OOh i'm excited for you (was the saleman with you when you and was he silent during the test drive ) the child in me says DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT!