thoughts please

[sunshine]

Hi guys,

Been lurking on here for while genning-up on the RS4, but this is my first post.

I'm looking for something to replace my two year old M3, having most recently come via a couple of tweaked Imprezas and and an Evo. The M3 is very impressive, but the BMW brand has no appeal for me and the new M3 does not do it from what I have seen (although no doubt it will drive very well).

Thought about a 997s, but can't justify the extra money and not sure how it will go down with clients... Which brings me back to the RS4.

Managed a couple of hours in the cabriolet courtesy of very helpful local dealer a couple of weeks ago and this afternoon the wife and I squeezed an hour in a saloon courtesy of another. The Cab is not for me - too much scuttle shake, nor sure about four seat rag-tops and having now driven the saloon, I can't justify the premium.

So my thoughts so far:

I was expecting more engine noise - even with the sport button enabled, I wanted to hear the V8 more. Still sounded very good (and much better from the outside), but left me slightly disappointed. Does anyone know how the Milltech cat-back system sounds from inside the car - does it improve the cabin acoustics?

Compared the BMW system, the sport button did not appear to give a very different throttle response (the wife's Boxster sport option is not as noticable either). No doubt it is improved, but again, not quite the impact I was expecting.

We both thought the bucket seats were very comfortable and I much preferred them to the Recaros in the Cab, but then neither of us is exactly large, and we are used to the sports seats in the Porsche (the buckets reminded me of the seats in the Evo, but with better lower back contours).

Suspension was very good - but I was looking at the sports suspension plus option. Sets the car off visually and given that it is a performance car and almost all the time will either be only one of us, or both, in the car and we enjoy the feel of tauter set-up, then it still tempts. Trouble is local dealers are not recommending and I am going to have to make a decision without actually being able to test the option for myself. Can anyone compare to the Evo VII, M3 (on 19"s) or the Porsche (PASM on normal or sport). The latter on sport is mostly too stiff for general use on most local roads, but on standard is better than the standard car on 18"s.

Wife reckons the car is a mix of Evo and M3 (but when she parked up next to my car, decided the M3 looked like an old man's car...) and I tend to agree - I described it to her before she drove it as an Evo in a suit. She still reckons nothing was as much fun to drive as the Evo - "if you don't get the Evo, you're not driving it properly" was her comment to the BMW salesman... But the RS4 did make her smile, which the M3 never did! And whilst I love the oversteer on tap of the M3, I preferred the overall package of the RS4: the speed is deceptive - you check the speedo and "oh my God", the handling was great. I liked the progression of the brakes and the gear change was just right. I did find the first to second and second to third changes under full acceleration less than smooth, but I think that was me not the car!

Shame Audi cannot sort TMC on a £55k car and that that the phone options are way off the mark, but otherwise I WANT ONE - just not sure on the suspension.

BTW, are re-maps really undetectable? Not that I would consider one at this stage, but maybe after a year, when I need a new buzz....

Any comments would be appreciated, but my internet access is currently limited, so forgive me if I do not acknowledge immediately.

[simple1]

From the top... welcome
Tmc is not a major issue, and will be sorted in the near future according to my sources, a software upgrade followed by TMC without a line through it.....
Miltek system is very nice, if a bit noisey, does give claimed 20 bhp increase and 16 ft lbs...... having driven several V8 engined AMG mercs, I find the standard exhaust plenty loud enough but then my car is an Avant so maybe not so much insulation from it. I found that B5 with Miltek and cats was too boomy and will keep to the standard exhaust for now.
Am about to embark on the software upgrade for the Ecu, I am sure there is some way of detecting it, but if you keep the rev limit the same it is not going to show up on the data log as an over revved engine if it decides to eat itself.......... the fault logs I have seen wont show any upgrade to software..28 bhp from software, 20 from exhaust, and 56 lbs from both....mmmmm
I think you would be happy with an RS4 as a daily driver, tried a 996 turbo as daily hack for a while, not great and always attracted the wrong sort of attention, much like any BMW I have owned, the RS is subtle enough to the uneducated, the more knowledgable will compliment and want to have a closer look round..... and you can leave an RS in the carpark, Porker always had a bit missing or another scratch.

End of the day its your choice, but having owned RS's from 2001, I highly recommend the experience.........

[dxben]

Are you guys over there seriously able to get a verifiable 28hp from an ECU flash? Why isn't this being offered over here in the states yet? I have heard 20hp for the milteks though. If that is true, then 58hp would be quite a nice boost on top of what we have now.

And how are you getting 56lbs of torque?

Not doubting you, just want to know how I can enjoy the spoils too

[Future_RS6Owner]

Are you guys over there seriously able to get a verifiable 28hp from an ECU flash? Why isn't this being offered over here in the states yet? I have heard 20hp for the milteks though. If that is true, then 58hp would be quite a nice boost on top of what we have now.

And how are you getting 56lbs of torque?

Not doubting you, just want to know how I can enjoy the spoils too

With 58 more horses you think that would give the RS4 a speed advantage over the current M5? RS4's I have seen can keep up with it to a certain speed in stock form so surely with the extra BHP and Torque can out run the M5?

[dxben]

Are you guys over there seriously able to get a verifiable 28hp from an ECU flash? Why isn't this being offered over here in the states yet? I have heard 20hp for the milteks though. If that is true, then 58hp would be quite a nice boost on top of what we have now.

And how are you getting 56lbs of torque?

Not doubting you, just want to know how I can enjoy the spoils too

With 58 more horses you think that would give the RS4 a speed advantage over the current M5? RS4's I have seen can keep up with it to a certain speed in stock form so surely with the extra BHP and Torque can out run the M5?

Great question, but maybe a better one would be would the additional 58 horses be good enough to nullify and possibly exceed the eventual performance of the E90 M3?

That's what I'm more concerned with at the moment But yeah, surpassing the M5 would be another piece of icing on the cake.

Thing is I am somewhat dubious about these 58hp. That sounds like a ton of HP for a NA engine just from catbacks and an ECU flash, not even counting downpipes? The B6/B7 S4 never saw that much HP from those two mods combined did it?

[simple1]

Not my figures, just quoting others, DMS claim to add 28 bhp and 36 ft lb torque from re-map, this we can quantify as I will get a before and after rolling road map.......... the other figures are what miltek claim they have got from adding the exhaust, backed up apparently with rolling road proof.

[sunshine]

simple1,

Thanks for your comments. I had the chance of a Schnitzer system on a pre-owned M3, but found the same issue - sounded great above 5k rpm, but seemed boomy below that, especially at some normal cruise speeds, so put me off. I guess the problem is more in the sound insulation: the exhaust note is fine outside the car and much noisier may be too obvious? I would just prefer to savour the engine note a bit more inside then car. But then these were relatively short drives and enough people rave about the engine, so maybe I just need to live with it for a while.

Must admit the thought of exhaust and re-map gains would be tempting when starting to get too used to the car, leading to itchy feet etc... cheaper than a new car!

So its just the suspension decision then

[simple1]

Unless you intend to track the car on a regular basis, the standard suspension is more than good enough, I would think that an upgrade to say GMBH or aftermarket might upset rather than enhance the car in every day use.

[nidfix]

So its just the suspension decision then

I was a bit concerned like you so I test drove 19" with and without SS+ and SS+ is surprisingly soft. It is far from aftermarket super stiff suspensions like a Bilstein PSS9 set. So for the better control it brings I would recommend SS+

[Nipper]

Sunshine, I've got SS+ on my Avant and I can't recommend it highly enough. The std Susp is good but the SS+ is just that bit extra, bur still very compliant. It also sits the car a tad lower, which is a big plus.

I've also got a 996 C4S and the SS+ is no way near as stiff as the std porsche sports susp. To be honest on 90% plus of roads the Avant with SS+ handles better than the C4S which tends to get very skipppy over bumps.

Go for SS+ you won't regret it!!!!

[sunshine]

Thanks Nipper,

As I'm not buying the car to sell-on in 6 or 9 months, but to keep for a couple of years then I've decided to go for what I want out of it, not what dealers are saying will popular (or unpopular) come re-sale. Obviously, there is a caveat to this and I won't go stupid on a spec that will totally ruin residuals, but it looks like:

Daytona Grey
Black optics
Tech pack
SS+
TV
boot release
auto mirror/lights/wipers (possibly - I'm kind of used to them on the M3 now)
bucket seats

and loads of smiles