Your input please!

[wombat]

Hi Pete,

Anyhow, I'd appreciate some "long term" reports from any B6 S4 owners, as I'm now seriously considering purchasing one There seems to be a lack of such posts atm!

Specifically:

MPG
Rough mileage when servicing has become due
Tyre wear
Servicing costs
General impression of the car, especially if you've come from a B5 (as I currently own)

I've been a PROUD S4 owner since Jan 04 but only have 8,000 miles on the clock so far. MPG is low as I like to have fun during the few miles I do get to drive the car. DON'T go for the V8 S4 if fuel costs worry you; filling an S4 with anything less than Optimax will restrict performance so you'll be paying a slight premium for fuel anyway.

The B6 is great fun especially in the wet over the Pennines. The car gets quicker each month that goes by. I love the V8 sound when the engine is opened up and the stealth factor that means I can arrive in a client's car park without looking like a boyracer. No turbo lag takes a little bit to get used to as does the power steering and clutch bite point but if you're planning to run the car for more than a couple of years these points are no real issue.

Okay it's not all roses: I don't think the air-con is "set and forget" like my B5; I find myself adjusting the temperature/fan speed to compensate for changes in the sun's strength. There was a problem with with the fuel gauge that constantly read empty, even after a fuel stop. Following some advice from a local MOT station I let the tank run down until approx. 1/4 full, drove over some speed bumps for a couple of minutes and the fault cleared. Also, I have reason to believe that the top end speed restrictor doesn't kick in at the Audi advertised limit although I'm sure it does kick in eventually...


The boyracers do leave you alone but it's fun to watch them disappearing in the rear view mirror if you do want to play.

The only mod. I've made is to the central locking system so the car auto-locks once a certain speed is reached

I'm sure you can arrange a couple of test drives, maybe see if you can get hold of one over a weekend for a real comparison?

--
Darren

[Pete.S]

Thanks for all your help guys - you gotta love this forum. Ask the same question on a BMW forum & it'd be "well I was driving through Stockport high street at 155 mph the other day...."

Darren - great advice there, seems (as I imagined) that the B6 is my perfect next car in every way apart from fuel costs, it's a case of weighing up how much I actually want one.

No turbo lag takes a little bit to get used to

You think? I thought one of the most noticeable characteristics of the B5 was the lack of turbo lag, so is it that much different?

I have reason to believe that the top end speed restrictor doesn't kick in at the Audi advertised limit although I'm sure it does kick in eventually...

The boyracers do leave you alone but it's fun to watch them disappearing in the rear view mirror if you do want to play

...perfect!

How are you finding the handling? I find the B5 is not terribly good entering corners (in terms of feedback from the road delivered to the wheel), particularly in comparison to, say, a 3 series; there have been reviews of the car mentioning it's improved feel etc, any thoughts?

[Scotty]

Scotty - did you purchase the car with the AMD work already having been carried out? If not, did it transform the car from standard? Looks like you're getting a drop of only a couple of average mpg, so does the increased performance etc justify the drop in economy?

Pete,

Sorry I'm sure I answered this but I now can't see my post.

I bought the car 5 months old and with about 5000miles on it and it was already modded. My friend that I bought it off has bought off sold it so he could get an S4 cab. He has already done the same mods on it so he must have been as happy as I am.

I think the mpg being 18 is more to do with the amount of town driving the car gets. To be honest if the ratio of town driving weas much higher then I'd say it's not the car for the job as the fuel consumption and smoothness of gear changes at a crawl are not the best. Apart from that I'm simply loving it.

[Gareth]

I'd echo the comments by Scotty on the mpg and gearchange totally. With my S4 avant I found it a pig in traffic because of the clutch action (high and not sweet IMO) and the change quality is a little notchy.

As for mpg I averaged between 18-22 which is what I expected before getting the S4. I was more concerned with the pathetic tank capacity of only 60 litres which exagerates the lack of mpg in the mind. Interestingly the two RS6's I've driven have all given mpg of at least 19, and up to 23 with out any real restraint.

As for the residuals of the S4 it's like any big, expensive car these days. If you really want one just make sure you buy the best colour/spec possible and screw the best deal possible. I was able to buy my S4 avant for £35k (advertised at £36,995 at the end of '03) and sold it in March for £34,650 to Reading Audi. They then advertised it at £36,995 and probably got £35.5-36k for it. Given the fuel prices these days however I would expect the vlaues of S4's too continue to soften though.......

[Pete.S]

This mpg issue is becoming a real thorn in the side (particularly for high mileage drivers like myself).

I posted something about this ages ago, but to reiterate, considering the perhaps most obvious (or rather revered) competitor to the S4, the M3, was introduced a full 2 years before the B6, and in this day and age of increasing economically-aware motoring, I just can't understand why Audi would install an engine in the S4 that has not only produced a slower car, but also one that's less frugal than the Beemer. I'm getting reports of high 20s for mpg figures on the M3

If the B6 S4 was at least 26 combined mpg (thus better than the B5), 0 - 60 in under 5 secs, 0 - 100 in under 12 secs, with the all important and defining 4 wheel drive, I'd be posting this from the dealers right now. It would have been interesting to have seen what response Audi would have received from motorists, tuners and the press if they'd have twin turbo-d the 3 litre from the current A4 3 litre. Anyone know why they didn't go down that route? I know all the stories about Audi persuing the normally-aspirated ethos, but surely, from sales on the B5 S4 and RS4, they must have known why these cars were so popular, particularly from an after-sales tuning point of view?

I've seen VERY few negative posts about the M3, but opinion on the B6 S4, as seen in this thread, varies greatly!

[JamesB]

"Here's my ten cents, my two cents is free"


I've had my B6 S4 for over a year and put about 17000 miles on the clock. I would echo what other drivers have written above. The car has pace but it isn't always obvious until you look at the speedo or in the rear view mirror. I like the effortlessness but the downside is that it probably (alright, almost definitely) isn't as involving as an M3, or as quick in the dry and/or a straight line.

But then an M3 hasn't got 4 wheel drive, 4 doors or much subtlety, which are the reasons I ended up choosing the S4. In the wet (and snow last winter) it just doesn't seem to behave differently. I have kids so access to the back seats is a great help. And you get very little attention from the Max Power brigade (or plod) which I consider a bonus and am sure can't be the case with the M3.

The mpg is an irritation but, for me at least, only because of the small tank and having to start thinking about fuel stops when only down to a quarter full. This is partly because it is best to take non-standard unleaded, as mentioned above. I went in to the deal expecting low mpg so can't complain - although I still would like an explanation as to how Audi achieved this notable feat when the RS6 is consideraly heavier and has two turbos which should surely guzzle more juice not less than the NA engine .

I can't say I've ever had any problems with porpoises but then I am an animal lover.

The clutch is still an irritation even after 17000 miles particularly in traffic/around town, as Gareth says. I'd go for Tiptronic if given the choice again but I think the point has already been raised that there are unknowns about the tiptronic box if you are planning to go down the modding route.

Re your other specific questions:

MPG - around 21 in mixed traffic
tyres - changed from Contis to PS2s after 12000 miles, huge difference
service interval - 18000 miles
service cost - I actually had my service done before the computer told me and IIRC it came to about £330


In summary, it's not the out and out driver's car that the M3 or RS4 are (he says, having never driven an RS4), it's surprisingly thirsty and the manual box can be a pain.

BUT the 4WD (cf the M3) is an enormous bonus when the conditions are typically English, it has extra doors and even comes in estate size and its stealthy as anything. I've surprised more than one person by leaving them behind, especially now its done a few miles. Probably the only real advantage over the RS4 is that you can get hold of a new, or nearly new, one.

[JamesB]

And I have heard folk say that the big V8 was for the sake of our cousins on the other side of the pond.

[JamesB]

Oh, and did I tell you about when I was driving through Stockport high street at 155 mph the other day?

[Pete.S]

Thanks James, great review.

Your postive points are exactly the reasons I haven't dismissed the car as a choice after almost a year of deciding, particularly the stealthy character of the car (Vs M3) whch I'm well aware of, and have used to my advantage (as you have) in the 3 years of my B5 ownership...

Probably the only real advantage over the RS4 is that you can get hold of a new, or nearly new, one.

...which is why I'm struggling to be convinced about purchasing an RS4, considering I'll probably put over 100k miles on an already old shape and at very best 3 year old car in my intended 3 years of ownership.

although I still would like an explanation as to how Audi achieved this notable feat when the RS6 is consideraly heavier and has two turbos which should surely guzzle more juice not less than the NA engine

...quite. Audi obviously haven't designed the car to be an outright driver's car, more the every day, all-weather performance motor, but when one of their key target market groups must be the autobahn cruisers in Germany (and the US), surely you'd have thought they would have addressed the fuel consumption issue more successfully? I know fuel prices are cheaper in the States (& in Germany?), but still, it hasn't taken a brain surgeon over the last few years to work out predictions of oil price surges

[Pete.S]

Oh, and did I tell you about when I was driving through Stockport high street at 155 mph the other day?

Oh that was YOU up my arse was it?

[JamesB]

Oh, and did I tell you about when I was driving through Stockport high street at 155 mph the other day?

Oh that was YOU up my arse was it?

Yep. This must be the proof about the limiter. I still had loads in reserve and would have got past through the pedestrian precinct if it hadn't been for those pesky kids.

[Gareth]

On the point of the Tiptronic and it's ability to handle further mods I would have though it would be up to the job really. As I recall the transmission is in essence the same as the RS6 so it really should be able to handle c.400 bhp+

On the mpg side the best average I got was 24mpg (crusie on, steady 70-75 for 100 miles) and the worst was 13.7 mpg

[Krammer002]

I've seen VERY few negative posts about the M3, but opinion on the B6 S4, as seen in this thread, varies greatly!

You may like to consider / compare the psychological and sociological profiles of both types of driver...!

[JamesB]

I've seen VERY few negative posts about the M3, but opinion on the B6 S4, as seen in this thread, varies greatly!

You may like to consider / compare the psychological and sociological profiles of both types of driver...!

[Diesel]

What's this 'porpoising' effect all about then - never heard of it ????

I have actually caught this on video camera as I was doing a TV review of an S2 many moons ago. The Welsh road B road was undulating up and down a lot , although gently. The car can be seen to have a 'floaty' look to it as it dricves to camera. This exagerrates the changes in road height, makes you feel a bit nauseous and makes you back off, even though you may be in a straight line. Possibly caused by under-damping (allowing springs to expand and contract too much). More damping would mean a less comfortable ride.

If I could get my VHS into my keyboard I'd show you - ohh and me caning an RS2 too mith a mic up its gorgeous sounding tailpipe:). At the end of the day I loved both cars, and many moons later am picking your brains elsewhere here to see which Avant I should choose (feel free to comment & usual 'off topic-ish' apologies!)-

RS2 (bit old/will have had a hard life/maintenance?)
RS4 (the 'R' is not worth twice the price of an S, values will dip mid 2005?)
S4 B5 (can remap, but has Turbo lag and all assoc turbo complications & costs X2!!)
S4 B6 (no turbo lag, poor mpg, engine 'uneventful'?)

D