Hi guys, Just a quick one to clear something up for me.
I've currently got a Volvo 850R which is running 280BHP
I've been thinking about going a bit bananas and heading for big power with this 850R, but an Audi S4 has come up which I've fallen in love with (turbos upgraded / lots of RS4 parts) and the car is running 350BHP.
So my question is regarding the Quattro 4WD transmission losses and how this translates to speed.
850R - 280BHP through front 2 wheels
Audi S4 - 350BHP through 4 wheels
Now the Audi will always be quicker off the line, but what about everything else. From what I have worked out about the transmission losses on the 4WD, it looks like the Volvo is faster (BHP on the road wise) but this doesn't seem right. I'm 100% certain the Audi will be much faster so can someone help with my figures please!
Cheers
Audi S4 & transmission losses VERSUS 2wd cars
RE: Audi S4 & transmission losses VERSUS 2wd cars
FWD will have much less losses for sure, but with a BHP gap like that, I think the S4 is always going to be quicker. The power at the wheels of the S4 is not going to be far off the power of the engine in the Volvo as it stands at the moment.
Present: 2010 Ice silver B8 S4 s-tronic saloon (standard)
Past: 1998 Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
Hers: 2011 Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 sport quattro
Past: 1998 Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
Hers: 2011 Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 sport quattro
RE: Audi S4 & transmission losses VERSUS 2wd cars
AFAIK The nominal figure for transmission loss on the S4 quattro system is around 60 - 70 bhp, so like Graham says, it'll be 280 at the wheels ish....
Whilst the Volvo (Is it manual or automatic) will be around 230 - 240 at the wheels.
That said the other thing to look at is torque - that modified S4 is probably pulling 400ft/lb's of torque, what's the Volvo making - 300ft/lb's?
Dunno about you but give me torque any day of the week over hp. I'm certain my new S4 feels dog slow compared to my old one because it's making 90ft/lb's less torque rather than it being down 45hp
Whilst the Volvo (Is it manual or automatic) will be around 230 - 240 at the wheels.
That said the other thing to look at is torque - that modified S4 is probably pulling 400ft/lb's of torque, what's the Volvo making - 300ft/lb's?
Dunno about you but give me torque any day of the week over hp. I'm certain my new S4 feels dog slow compared to my old one because it's making 90ft/lb's less torque rather than it being down 45hp
Wanted: C5 RS6 Avant
Audis are cheaper than women, and when they finally leave they don't take your kids and half your stuff....
although smack either one about and the police turn up
Audis are cheaper than women, and when they finally leave they don't take your kids and half your stuff....
although smack either one about and the police turn up
RE: Audi S4 & transmission losses VERSUS 2wd cars
turbo,s upgraded but with only 350bhp..is that rite..
GARTH ROAD MOT CENTRE LTD
Unit 2 1-7 Amenity Way Garth rd Morden Surrey SM4 4AX
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Unit 2 1-7 Amenity Way Garth rd Morden Surrey SM4 4AX
Exhausts,Clutches,Diagnostics,Tyres,Servicing and Air Conditioning
Opening soon is our new motorcycle Mot bay
020 83353032
Thanks for the replies guys.
The Volvo was dyno'd recently and was bang on 245WHP so I think perhaps 280-285bhp.
It's a manual (more powerful than the 850R auto)
I'm not sure how to convert to ft/lbs, but the torque on my Volvo is 410Nm
s4woody - Good point. The turbos are actually "hybrids" from Turbo Developments. The seller tells me they are S4 turbos (so K03) but reworked and strengthened. He definitely said they are hybrids so maybe TD have mated the K03 with something else.
The only two things that concerned me are
1) The new turbos haven't had the new oil lines swapped. Still running on the old pre-facelift lines then........
2)Exhaust manifolds not been changed. Owner said no rattles though
The Volvo was dyno'd recently and was bang on 245WHP so I think perhaps 280-285bhp.
It's a manual (more powerful than the 850R auto)
I'm not sure how to convert to ft/lbs, but the torque on my Volvo is 410Nm
s4woody - Good point. The turbos are actually "hybrids" from Turbo Developments. The seller tells me they are S4 turbos (so K03) but reworked and strengthened. He definitely said they are hybrids so maybe TD have mated the K03 with something else.
The only two things that concerned me are
1) The new turbos haven't had the new oil lines swapped. Still running on the old pre-facelift lines then........
2)Exhaust manifolds not been changed. Owner said no rattles though
Please can you find out more about these turbos and the supplier and share with us?
It sounds like you have a pretty rare configuration there and there are a lot of people here that would like to know more.
It sounds like you have a pretty rare configuration there and there are a lot of people here that would like to know more.
Present: 2010 Ice silver B8 S4 s-tronic saloon (standard)
Past: 1998 Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
Hers: 2011 Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 sport quattro
Past: 1998 Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
Hers: 2011 Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 sport quattro
T5 forum seems to be down at the moment!
Graham - I've only had a 10 minute chat with the owner over the phone so not exactly sure of the turbo details. The company that worked on them is http://turbodevelopments.co.uk/
The guy sounds really nice, and said that one of his turbos developed a whistle so he took it to TD and went for the reworked S4 turbos as it was cheaper than the K04 route.
This is the car up on the trader
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/ca ... locale=STF
I've decided not to buy this car, but if you want to find out more he's called Steve & he's got the paperwork from TD so he can tell you what was done.
I really want one with the K04 already done or even RS6 hybrids, oh and in Imola or Noggy too. Might be waiting a while eh!
Graham - I've only had a 10 minute chat with the owner over the phone so not exactly sure of the turbo details. The company that worked on them is http://turbodevelopments.co.uk/
The guy sounds really nice, and said that one of his turbos developed a whistle so he took it to TD and went for the reworked S4 turbos as it was cheaper than the K04 route.
This is the car up on the trader
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/ca ... locale=STF
I've decided not to buy this car, but if you want to find out more he's called Steve & he's got the paperwork from TD so he can tell you what was done.
I really want one with the K04 already done or even RS6 hybrids, oh and in Imola or Noggy too. Might be waiting a while eh!
410nm = 302 lbft so that's a little lower than a remapped S4.
My one size fits all remap made 470 nm and most if not all MRC cars make 500nm (368lbft)
TBH My two S4's had well over 100K miles on them with stock manifolds and pre facelift oil lines and still on first set of turbo's, I wouldn't worry too much about these items on an S4. If he got to 90K miles on the stock manifolds then IMHO they ain't likely to break.
What turned you off that autotrader car out of curiosity? Apart from the nogaro alcantara and blue door inserts - yuk!
Before you all start flaming me, my car is Nogaro blue, I just don't have the nogaro interior - can't stand it! Do have the carbon trim though - v nice.
My one size fits all remap made 470 nm and most if not all MRC cars make 500nm (368lbft)
TBH My two S4's had well over 100K miles on them with stock manifolds and pre facelift oil lines and still on first set of turbo's, I wouldn't worry too much about these items on an S4. If he got to 90K miles on the stock manifolds then IMHO they ain't likely to break.
What turned you off that autotrader car out of curiosity? Apart from the nogaro alcantara and blue door inserts - yuk!
Before you all start flaming me, my car is Nogaro blue, I just don't have the nogaro interior - can't stand it! Do have the carbon trim though - v nice.
Wanted: C5 RS6 Avant
Audis are cheaper than women, and when they finally leave they don't take your kids and half your stuff....
although smack either one about and the police turn up
Audis are cheaper than women, and when they finally leave they don't take your kids and half your stuff....
although smack either one about and the police turn up
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