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What do you lot think ?

Voted don't know don't care but yes it is large and heavy, but aren't most cars these days? and it goes like stink

Depends on your point of view. There are lighter cars, but for build quality and motorway performance and value for money, then it's hard to beat. For a track car, it's not an ideal starting point!

Definitely a large, heavy beast of a car. Not as much fun to drive as my S2. But the whole point of the car is to feel solid, safe, and comfartable... and be able to get you from 1 point to another in as little time as possible

If you want a jet fighter buy an Elise

Oh dear! ....poll clearly based on the one line taken from my response to Buzzards brake mod thread.

The point I was getting across or at least attempted to, was that from my experience of driving quite a few performance cars on road and track, some of which have incredible brakes, the standard S4 set up is fine for the road....however once you get it on track you soon run out of brakes and suspension.......this is where I would look for improvement, as in deed do many who have already improved their cars in these areas.

The lardy barge comment comes from the fact that at nearly 1500kg with standard components fitted
the car is better suited to road work and why I wouldn't contemplate taking my own (standard) car on to the track.

A lot depends on your frame of reference of track cars and driving.........I have a mere 300bhp in a track car, yet the brakes and suspension are the same as some use on 550+bhp cars, with mine weighing 1260kg. This combination is more than adequate for competitive track fun and other than larger, caterham, radicals and better drivers in Gt3RS,,not much gets past.......am I a driving god......err!!! SO far from it, but the relatively low weight and over engineered brakes and suspension make the car handle well on track giving an apparent advantage.

As DavidT mentioned, he was very generous to allow me a passenger run in his S4 to compare against my own standard car.........I was absolutely blown away...literally, it was epic and the car performed to a Vmax of 174mph (from memory) and settled back down to rest with no fuss.
I have been to most of the Vmax days and have driven a few serious cars and passengered in many more I can honestly say that the run in DavidT's car was amongst the most memorable simply from the composed and fuss free nature it performed.

By virtue of it's age is not an unreasonabe weight for a road car......I couldn't be fussed with a B6 weighing nigh on 1700kg and you can also tell that an E39 M5 is a heavy car despite it's 400bhp.

Road and track driving are completely different disciplines and require different tools. I don't know if any of you have driven a caterham superlight? weighing approx 550kg, take one of these down a bumpy B road and you are wrestling the thing, in standard form (shocks) it doesn't weigh enough to contend with the bumps. On a smooth track they are astonishing for a 1600cc car on a bumpy b road, my S4 is faster and that is in the dry.

So having my one line of a thread taken, I hope I have clarified my position on the relative weight of the S4, making it ideal as a road car and preferable to me at least to the '02 996 C2 I had before to fit this role.

To be perfectly honest my answer would have to be 'DILLIGAF'
As long as it shows most of the jap rice mobile's etc and some more expensive cars a clean pair of heels.
And yes we all agree there are lighter cars about, and braking / handling can be resolved, but I guess we all chose them for the same reason the grin factor and the practicality

Sure it's lardy, but barge implies slow. It's certainly not slow.

Mine's bog standard and the other day I had a guy driving a new RX-8 wondering how an 8 year old saloon was able to get past his nimble 'sports car'. On both the bends and on the straights I was all over him. From the tone of his engine and the frequent gear changes, he was trying pretty hard. It could be that he was scared of getting it dirty or spinning the back out, but he was slower round the bends and slower getting on the power coming out of them than the 'lardy barge'. Once we hit a roundabout that opened up to dual carriageway, I was gone. Had to turn off after 1/4 mile, so I'll never know if he would have caught up in the end.

It may have ended differently had the other driver pushed a bit harder, but the point is, this was the road and not a track. Spin out on the track and you hit a pile of rubber or turf up the grass. Spin out on the road and you could well hit an oncoming car. IMO the standard S4 is set up just fine for fast (but safe) road driving. On the road you can only push it so far without putting yourself and others at risk and my car seems to cope pretty well with some fairly demanding manouvres. On the couple of occasions I have managed to get the back end to slip out, I found it surprisingly easy to compensate/correct. I wouldn't dream of competing on a track, even in modified form. The weight distribution is all wrong so, no matter what you do to the brakes & suspension, balancing it through the bends is always going to be an effort (although it would be fun to give it a go just the once).

Back to the 'lardy barge' comment - if the S4 is a 'barge', then even 'fast' cars like the RX-8 could be described as 'barges' too. In boat terms, 'cruiser' or 'destroyer' may be more appropriate. They may be much heavier than a speedboat but, at about 30 knots (35 mph) they can be just as quick.

I vote option 4: Sure it's lardy, but it goes like stink!

lardy barge? No.

nimble jet? No.

Panzer Tank? Yes.

I voted lardy... we do have a heavy car with a clumbsy 4wd system... serious under steer and out the box very poor brakes & suspension. Few tweaks here and there and they can certainly be improved a heck of a lot. Never be an evo though... - an evo would be my definition of a NON-Clumbsy car.

I dont plan on killing myself of a B road nor do I hope to smash any track day records. I want power with comfort, style & reliability. Hence the bright yellow barge with a "BIG LUMP" lol

lardy barge? No.

nimble jet? No.

Panzer Tank? Yes.

more like stealth fighter..there,s nothing like showing what our A4 estates can do..you can polish a turd..

Given the weight of these cars and the robust build I would equate mine to a Panzer - powerful, purposeful and aggressive German engineering that other cars just should NOT fvck with ...

S4TAN wrote:Given the weight of these cars and the robust build I would equate mine to a Panzer - powerful, purposeful and aggressive German engineering that other cars just should NOT fvck with ...

I would like to agree with this, but I know that 99% of the population see our cars and see "just another A4". Doesn't/shouldn't stop us thinking they are Panzers though!

jfeb wrote:

S4TAN wrote:Given the weight of these cars and the robust build I would equate mine to a Panzer - powerful, purposeful and aggressive German engineering that other cars just should NOT fvck with ...

I would like to agree with this, but I know that 99% of the population see our cars and see "just another A4". Doesn't/shouldn't stop us thinking they are Panzers though!

The stealth nature of the S4 is one of it's most appealing characteristics to me.......unless you have a bright yellow one with a powerful engine of course

I often drive a be-spoilered yellow car and it is like driving a mobile carnival....can't get away with anything

When one considers the options available in this poll/thread:

Yes - the very definition of lard
No - light as a feather and goes like stink.
Don't know / don't care

Against the title of the thread “Is the B5 S4 a lardy barge ? - vote & discuss” I am rather disappointed that there is not an option for:

No – do not consider an S4B5 to be a ‘Lardy barge’

Perhaps you can enlighten us all DavidT why something similar has not been presented as an option?

And as for the other option presented, as opposed to don’t care - ‘No - light as a feather and goes like stink. Are you serious, or have you based this poll/forum thread on an Argentian election form?

So therefore I think the basis for gathering information in this poll/thread is fundamentally distorted at the outset.

Now there seems to be a general consensus forming that our cars are heavy, this is simply not true. They are a wonderful piece of engineering and when one considers:

The dimensions - Length 4488 mm - Width 1733 mm

The engine – 2.7Litre V6 Twin turbo – 5VPC - 97.7 bhp/litre

The drive train – 6 SPD transmission - Four wheel drive

The trim spec – Very high

Build quality – Very high. Even today’s standards we are talking very high quality engineering here.

Performance - 0-100 km/h 5.6 seconds top speed – well you all know the answer to this one (When de-limited).

So what does all that weigh - Approx 1540 kg (Depending on saloon/avant trim spec)

So lets think of a high performance four wheel drive sports car for comparison shall we?

2005 Porsche 911 Carrera 4S - 1550 kg. Does that make it a ‘Lardy barge’ as well?

Think not and the term ‘Lardy barge’ for our cars is frankly inappropriate and is IMHO the most unflattering term possible.

If I choose to be verbally challenged I would refer to this as a ‘Lardy barge’:

2007 Porsche Cayenne S 2225 kg

I think that just about covers it and maybe we could tweak this thread DavidT?

Paul

MCB, I think you are taking things a little too seriously on this one mate, an S4 is a high end performance estate car.

With respect to the weights of Porsches, you wouldn't believe the ammount of stick some of the owners get, especially from those of us without any carpets, trim and windy up thin glassed windows