K03 hybrid

[S4TAN]

If you can find someone you can trust who is willing then maybe its a 'GO'

Well I think Doug is a "can do" kind of chap - so if it were proved that it can be done with engine in-situ then I assume that he would give it a go (note I use the word 'assume' - he could always flatly refuse, or even quote a longer labour time than that for an engine lift!)

[MarkB]

That was my thinking. He says 20 hours using lift method but may offer to do it without the lift but you pick up the cost regardless of time time taken. When he's cursing you after 30 hours...

[jeffw]

It's not a case that the turbo's will melt because the fueling isn't up to the job, it's the fact that the map you had allowed the turbo's to run beyond the fueling capabilties

It's exactly the result of fueling not being up to the job....the job was to run K04 turbos which the fueling couldn't do without running lean. I don't know if you would need fueling for K03 hybrids but I guess that you would to make more than 320-330 BHP.

[MarkB]

The K04's can run more boost/flow than the K03's. If you run these levels of boost/flow without enough fuel things will go pop.

If you scale it all back to within the range of the standard fueling you shouldn't have any problems. There is always a weakest link. K03 mapped is the turbo's, fix the turbo's (K04's) the the next link is the fuel. If you ran K04's with no more boost than the K03's you would be running very safe, but as you say, 'No More Power'

[ZeroK66]

I thought the problems were K03's... how are hybrids going to be more reliable? I would be worried that the hybrids would suffer a similar fate to the standard K03's... at least K04's are proven not to go pop as easily as K04s.

[ZeroK66]

My brother came across a post over on audi-world about replacing turbos in situ - and has been done DIY - with step by step instructions & pics. next time I speak to him I will ask him about the post/link. I think it was K04's as well!!

[jeffw]

There was a guy who posted on here from Poland (I think) who claimed to be able to change the Turbos on a B5 S4 without pulling the engine. Had to do with jacking the back of the engine up if I remember correctly.

[GrahamS4]

Sounds like the one I saw. Just finished searching for it:

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2545429.phtml


As far as a basic write-up on the swap:
-remove headlights, bumper.
-disconnect radiator hoses, power steering lines (use hose block off pliers the steering fluid is like $25 a liter), disconnect A/C lines from condenser.
-there are two torx bolts up top on the front clip, and four on each side on the frame rails. remove these and the entire front clip will come loose. you also may need to remove headlight washer lines (I don't have them as I have a Reiger bumper).
-take the bolts out of the front axles and allow to hang loose, then tie back toward the rear of the car for clearance.
-Once the front end is off remove the intercoolers and intercooler piping the main inlet tubes are held on with o-rings and are very tight, don't be afraid to use a pry bar to pop off.
-You now have access to the turbos, remove the oil and coolant lines (I had a lift so this was much easier)
-unbolt the turbos from the manifolds and the manifolds from the heads.
-unbolt the heat shields and then the downpipes, unplug the front 02 sensors
-remove the manifolds through the front of the car (I had to pry on the driver side of the engine for clearance to get the manifold on that side)
- the pass side turbo will come out the front of the car from underneath.
-the driver side turbo will cone out from the bottom almost straight down (you can pull this without removing the manifold but it's much easier if you do)
-remove the oil drain and fill lines and clean
-re-install is the opposite of removal.
- also you will have access to do a timing belt, water pump, serp belt, etc. I recommend doing while this far along.

-tools required- Metric ball-end Allen socket set, 8mm and 6mm straight Allen sockets, 10-spline socket driver set (to loosen the axles), metric socket set, pry bar set, Phillips and flat head screwdrivers, metric box end wrench set, etc.

-notes: my car has an aftermarket bumper with custom intercooler supports, I removed the A/C completely with my swap, I reinstalled with aftermarket manifolds which took a lot more work to get into the car than the stock ones coming out. Tools required is to the best of my recollection as I had the help of a tech, a lift, and 8 master-techs tools available to me. I'll post anything else that comes to mind.

[jeffw]

The K04's can run more boost/flow than the K03's. If you run these levels of boost/flow without enough fuel things will go pop.

If you scale it all back to within the range of the standard fueling you shouldn't have any problems. There is always a weakest link. K03 mapped is the turbo's, fix the turbo's (K04's) the the next link is the fuel. If you ran K04's with no more boost than the K03's you would be running very safe, but as you say, 'No More Power'

You and I are coming from different angles on this. I had a K04 upgrade done by AmD which involved the Turbos, full Milltek and remap....this was mapped so 400BHP according to AmD (actually 365 ish) and lasted 50K miles before the turbo melted....

Did it need more fuel? Of course....can you run K04s without fuel upgrade? Yes, I did for 50K miles.....should you ? absolutely not.

I have a feeling that the K03 Hybrid will be the same.

[GrahamS4]

Jeff - I see and understand what you are saying. I think Mark does too. I've a feeling you might really be in agreement but perhaps are missing one anothers points.

Your car with K04's mapped to produce 365BHP didn't really have enough fuel, was running lean and the turbos died.

Your car with K04's mapped to produce 340BHP (or less if required) not running lean, wouldn't have killed the turbo would it? I must add here I am assuming this is possible - ie a K04 doesn't require more fuel than a K03 to make the same power.

The car running lean was the symptom of the problem which was a bad map considering the specification of the car was it not?

A worthy note none the less that others too have emphasised previously.

[S4TAN]

Sounds like the one I saw. Just finished searching for it: ...

Hmmmm - good find ... I wonder what Doug/MRC would quote for this ... (that is if they'd be prepared to do it this way at all ... ) - if it was, say for example, 10 hrs labour and factoring in the reduced cost of the 03 hybrids, then this may be a nice little upgrade (could also fit a used pair of RS4 i/c's while the front is off ... )

[MarkB]

A lot of if's and but's...

Graham, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Push the fuel system too hard things will fail, and it won't be the fuel system that fails but the things it isn't supplying correctly.

I have heard that the standard fuel pump looses power over time so could have been a major part of why the car ran fine to start with and for 50K. Upgrading the fuel system gives more head room, I admit.

I think I would want to upgrade the pump if pushing harder with K03 hybrids, just for piece of mind

[GrahamS4]

@ S4TAN - I thought you camped out up the back behind the S2, why don't you ask

[MarkB]

I hope MRC do comment. We don't all have thousands to spend but would like a route if our turbo's go pop

[S4TAN]

@ S4TAN - I thought you camped out up the back behind the S2, why don't you ask

Bloody hell - I'm not THAT sad! ... but i certainly will be asking them what their thoughts are on doing this ...