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http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2777

Apparantly the ONLY tool to use, and only available from the U.S

Whats so special about it? I'm no valeter but it looks just like a standard mop!

A lot of the 'premier' detailers swear by them. They have a random motion to minimise potential for swirls.

Great in the right hands, and can take hours out of waxin something as big as a 6, but be careful Bob. They can ruin paint work if not used properly and you don't look after the pads properly.

I'd get a session booked with a detailer how use one and as part of the deal they train you to use it.

I have one - had it for over a year now. They give great results but you have to put a lot of effort in and watch what compounds and pads you use with it. The real beauty with them is that they are totally 'random' and this is supposed to prevent the introduction of more swirl/buff marks which normal orbital polishers etc can introduce.

Was interested to see how an 'amateur' got on with it, thought about a 'rotary' once but glad I didn't go for it. As Damon says the pros seem to swear by them, and that brand exclusively, you can get random ones in Halfords, but not recommended - something to do with how they're weighted.

Damon, I have no intention of using one, I'd surely balls it up, and I'm far too lazy...

Anyone know if or where you can buy touch up kits? Stone chip has appeared, and it's 50 quid to pay a valeter to do it... Did I mention I can be a tight b*stard too?

Ok folks, befor i start in on this category, ill begin with the statement that "everyone has some opinion about detailing and theirs is usually the best " ...Well thats fine but I would like to offer you my professional imput.
I have been detaing and doing paint and body work for the pastdecade or more. I also am a composite engineer for a Tuner in the states. I have used just about every machine on the market and have tried countless products .
Wether you are a seasoned pro or a newbie at using a wheel or buffer it makes no difference..
Polishers like the Porter-Cable listed above , or a Dewalt unit are great and to do cutting with (cutting the paint down with abrasives) they are great and in skilled hands can do great finish work. But for the hobbiest who wants effortless carefree professional finishing for their auto's paint..and upholstery, the Cyclo is the Shiz for sure. I finally broke down and got one about a year ago after proding from a friend detailer. And i fell in love. No swirls you can use it to polish out and mildly cut your paint and apply polish and waxes with no swirls or any negative results, no burnt edges..nothing but beauty. YOu can also use it to do seaths and carpets with the brush attatchments. I am including a link for you all. As far as pads i recomend, yellow is more agressive, then green or blue , black and white are the softer finer pads. and i will also include a link for the best wax/sealer money can buy... dont even say "well what about such and such?" trust me you wont get a deeper shine from anything out there and the lasting protection is superior to anything I've ever used. If you all have any ?'s feel free to take a shot and fire some off. I'd be glad to help you all out . After all keeping these masterpieces running and looking beautifull is what its all about.
http://www.autogeek.net/cyclo-polisher.html = Cyclo- theres alot of places to buy it but this is a good link with info...made in Germany to.I know it aint cheap but you will get your moneys worth for sure. I promise .
http://detailplus.com/detail_supplies.htm =Wax/Sealant ,a little goes a long long way so dont use to much on your applicator pads. A dime size on each pad to start on a large pannel and then maybe a drop or two every pannel there after, just to get a nice thin haze on the surface...then wipe off with a microfiber towel. BLING BLING!!!

Hi mate very interesting reading and i thanks you for that. Just a quick question. I have a 1993 audi s2 coupe and although from a distance the car shines like new when u get close up there are swirls and minor scratches. Will this polish and cyclo eliminate that? Will be as good on the older paint is what im trying to say. Thanks again

I've been using Zmol products for a few years now and have some insight from a successful Porsche concours fanatic (who also paints cars to Porsche factory spec). He swears by preping and polishing in vertical & horizontal lines only, therefore avoiding the swirls.

I was a bit sceptical at first, but I let him loose on my brand spankin Porsche (less than 50 miles) and removed all the usual orange peel you get on modern cars (it's there, even on £50k+ cars) with a combination of elbow grease and a non-orbital polisher. The result was a paint finish you could literally shave in.

Gotta avoid the automatic car washes at all costs - they are ther major culprit of swirl marks.

Nige_S4 wrote:Gotta avoid the automatic car washes at all costs - they are ther major culprit of swirl marks.

It pains me when I see a nice car in a que for a car wash... My old man is ex-VAG staff and has seen a car that followed an old capri into the car wash, the capri forgot to remove his metal ariel; the brushes snapped it off and when it caught in the brush it acted like a circular saw and gouged a combination of groove/slit in the bonnet, roof and boot!

Swirl marks are usually caused when washing and drying the car, I think everyone knows these days not to use a sponge but a microfibre mitt or even a lambswool one. As for drying, same principle applies for a shammy (chamois) - at the point in time it picks up a piece of grit/dirt that grit will stay on the surface of the shammy being dragged across the paintwork until said shammy is rinsed.

Me? I moved from chamois, to MF, to MF waffle weave towels and then the perfect solution to removing water from the car without scratches..

A leaf blower.

razor wrote:A leaf blower.

That is until you forget that the previous time you used it it was on the vacuum setting, and its got a load of crud, grit, leaves and all manner of evils jammed into it ready to be pounded into your paintwork

SteveH wrote:

razor wrote:A leaf blower.

That is until you forget that the previous time you used it it was on the vacuum setting, and its got a load of crud, grit, leaves and all manner of evils jammed into it ready to be pounded into your paintwork

Chuckle, very good point!

However, I was that sad enough that I only bought the leaf blower for removing water from the car so I am unlikely to suffer from the horrible fate you mentioned.

Swirl marks are usually caused when washing and drying the car, I think everyone knows these days not to use a sponge but a microfibre mitt or even a lambswool one.

I don't get this - how can a clean sponge cause any marks? The principle of keeping the sponge clean also applies to the MF mitt, doesn't it? I thought the lambswool mitt was for the final polish, not for getting wet (have you ever seen what a sheep looks like when it gets wet?)

Nige_S4 wrote:

Swirl marks are usually caused when washing and drying the car, I think everyone knows these days not to use a sponge but a microfibre mitt or even a lambswool one.

I don't get this - how can a clean sponge cause any marks? The principle of keeping the sponge clean also applies to the MF mitt, doesn't it? I thought the lambswool mitt was for the final polish, not for getting wet (have you ever seen what a sheep looks like when it gets wet?)

1) Sponges acts a very slight abrasive - placing your finger and rubbing across the surface will verify this. Open cell designs have never been what I call 'soft' by any stretch of the imagination. To really feel how rough a sponge is; wrap your fingers in celophane and then gently drag it over the surface of the sponge.

2) Clean sponge yes, but at the point in time it picks up a piece of grit/dirt as you wipe it over the bodyworkit will 'drag' that grit over the surface of the paintwork causing what is currently known as a swirl mark. Microfibres on the other hand are a polyamide core that have 'wedge' shaped polester filaments - these wedges acts a 'trap' for tiny pieces of dirt/grit and will remain within the filament until rinsed in water. As for visible pieces of grit/dirt then they are normally embedded into the 'pile' of the MF surface. Open cell sponge designs do not have this capability.


3) Lambswool have a myriad of uses that include washing the car, the deep natural pile is brilliant for embedding grit dirt and the softness of the surface is renowned for true lambswool.

Hope this helps.

stevieyid wrote:Hi mate very interesting reading and i thanks you for that. Just a quick question. I have a 1993 audi s2 coupe and although from a distance the car shines like new when u get close up there are swirls and minor scratches. Will this polish and cyclo eliminate that? Will be as good on the older paint is what im trying to say. Thanks again

Yes but to be more precise it depends on the type of polish/ compound used.
The Diamond plus will help eliminate or fade minor surface abrasions. but for heavier marks like swirls you will need a mild compounding product, like 3M perfect it fine compound...I am sorry i cant recall the exact name or the product number but you can find it any local paint and body retailer.

On another note... Lets do some paint 101 real quick.
Spiderwebs or light scratched are what you get from washing and drying with dirty or hard fabrics. Swirl marks come from using or missusing equipment like a polisher and sometimes orbitals , if you dont use proper methods.
If you are using a polisher or an orbital with a compound, you MUST use a polish afterwards to eliminate the cut marks from the compound. Afterall the compound is a cutting agent like sandpaper just really fine. So it will allways leave a mark in the paint coat or clearcoat.
By using a polish you want to use moderate to heavy preasure as you work a standard 2x2 area decreasing the preasure as the polish reduces from a haze to a shine. this might take a few times of polish depending on the harshness of your swirls.

The Cyclo with the Diamond plus wont leave swirls if you follow the polishing method described above and use a soft pad like black or white and even yellows if your more experienced .
The Diamond plus will help old or new paint i use it on my S2 , and it has the usual bad red paint from those years with the clear chipping.
But if your paint is faded badly and milky looking you will need to use a mild compound like 3m or you can try what i use as well "Haze -Away" from P&S, i believe i posted the link earlier or maybe it was in a different thread... here: http://www.pssales.com/troubleshoot.html
its a good base to work with for a mild compound. I use it with yellow pads on my Cyclo, but prefer to use Haze with a polisher like a Dewalt then move to P&S pink machine polish with the cyclo and then Diamond plus for a sealer coat... its quite a combo for finish, infact i havent found anything that beats it.
GL and have fun ...

Oh PS: Note this also befor you ever put a buffer of any type to your paint you need to make sure its clean, and i dont mean cleanly washed. You must remove all the fallout and crap embeded within your paint or you end up dragging it all over your paint making your work even harder and possably causing more swirls and scratches.
To eliminate that junk in your paint or any fallout like road rust or sap or whatever the case may be use a product like body shine or a quickdetailer spray for lubricant and a nice quality clay bar. do it in a cool place out of the sun and again work a 2x2 area at a time. Squirt down the pannel and form the clay( i soak it in warm watter to help the pliability) in your palm to a nice disc and then begin rubbing your paint with moderate pressure till you have a baby smooth surface. the morer you do it the more you will know when to stop and move on. you can tell by sound and ease of the clay sliding with the lubricant. After your done with the area wipe down with a chamois or terry cloth and move to the next spot. Once your done then you may beginbuffing and polishing. Alot of guys dont do this step and they will never have the mirror finish we all crave so if you want pro results , and u should if u drive an Audi, then follow these steps to perfection.
It might take you 4 hours or more to beautify your exterior, but the results are worth it , and your car is worth it. I tell people all the time" Its constant maintinance you need to do regularly for your car, just like changing your oil and roating tires, if you dont it wont last ."
But then i am a perfectionist and i obsess over my Audis or my work if someone is paying me to beautify their ride.

ok ok, another thing..man this is turning into a bible but i cant let it go cause i know someone will be wondering... what about tar and such like on your rockers and fenders?.. I use Goof-Off.. squirt it on a terrycloth(clean) and wipe till its gone.. this can soften your paint so try to not rub to hard less you have to and remove it quickly. Do this befor you clay bar your car.
Peace out