Dealer won't give me my deposit back on RS6...

[paddybrenn]

Looking for any advice that will help - test drove a 2003 Avant at an independant dealers and the gearbox was abismal! They said if I paid a deposit, they'd get it fixed and if I was happy with it, I would buy it, if not, I'd get the deposit back.
Got it fixed - appears to be fine, but I'm not happy with it having reviewed the forum, spoken to a transmission guy etc.. So I said I don't want to buy it because I'm not happy with the gearbox, and now they say I can't have the deposit back. I didn't sign anything but according to my credit card company, they can't help because I gave my credit card details, unless it was a refundable deposit. I never saw any paperwork, so don't know if it is or not, but as far as I was concerned it was refundable if I wasn't happy - black and white to me!

Anyway, it all seems iffy, but had a thought about sale of goods act and the spec. Can anyone tell me the standard spec for the (03) RS6 as regards wheels. I'm sure I saw something saying it was 19"', but when I google I get 18"'s which is what the car has. Is there a UK/American difference...

Any other suggestions much appreciated. Cheers

[GardinerG]

US = 18"
UK = 19"

Sorry, I'm not sure on the legalities of such things regarding the deposit.

[cocker]

Its s tricky one. The dealer has done his part and fixed it and has cost him money. You say its now fine but still aren't happy so whats the matter? I think the dealer has kept his side of the deal but you havent yours? I'm half tempted to side with the dealer here...

After all another customer could have bought the car and been totally happy with it as is, so in the dealers eyes you have cost him money he may not of had to spend. no wonder he wants to keep your deposit

What about if it was the other way round? How would you feel?

[darrenswift]

I'd be keen to hear how this 'garage' fixed the gearbox as well.
I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. Using your money to fix a car that should have been working in the first place, which they'll then go on to sell making even more of a profit!
It makes my blood boil.

[MoRS6+]

Was there any small print on the form you signed?

Someone on Tyresmoke about 3 or 4 years ago had a similar issue with an indy and went all round the houses to get their deposit back in what appears to be similar circumstances to yourself. I'll see if I can dig out the thread, but won't be for a while as I'm working.

[paddybrenn]

Thanks all. Good to have 2 sided comments.
Gardner - do you know if there is a link somewhere for that so I can prove it - I suppose I could phone Audi.
cocker - Yes, I totally agree and have looked at it from both sides. Another customer would have got in it before it was fixed, got whiplash from the gear changes, sued the dealer... At least now, the dealer has a car he can sell without anyone knowing how bad it was. I'm an honest person and would no way have let anyone drive that car before it was fixed if I was a dealer or a private seller. I'm not happy with the fact it was not working before and could be severely screwed now having subsequently found out the ATF was low. When I paid the deposit I didn't know what the fault was and so gave a deposit based on me being happy after the work had been done - it is irrelevant that it is fixed - I'm just not happy now.
darrenswift - I did ask for what the garage had done but decided against buying the vehicle before they sent it to me. Apparently it was low on ATF due to a VERY worn seal (not sure which if there are more than one...)
Thanks again - any more thoughts much appreciated.

[PaulF]

Some more detail might help, if the repair appeared to be fine, how come it isn't after talking to someone/viewing a forum.

[GardinerG]

Ok, I'll be a little more helpful this time.

UK - standard was 19", no cost option was 18", as per my UK RS6 brochure from 2002/3.

There were total of three original equipment manufacturer (OEM) roadwheel and tyre types produced for the RS6. In Europe and elsewhere, 19" wheels were standard, with an optional 18" package. In the U.S. market, the 18" package was the only available offering. An 18" winter package, with Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 tyres (225/45 ZR18 95V) was universally available.

For 18" wheels, the standard tyre fitted was 255/40 ZR18 99Y XL with eXtraLoad (XL) rating. This is often stressed, and is the only recommendation by Audi, as RS6 does weigh 1,865 kilograms (4,112 lb). Tyres which are not rated XL are not safe (nor legal, in most countries) for use. Owners reported finding Continental ContiSportContact 2, Dunlop SP Sport 9000, Michelin Pilot Sport PS2, and Pirelli P-Zero Rosso as OEM suppliers for tyres on the RS6. However, according to ETKA, the Dunlop and Pirelli tyres were subsequently withdrawn from official supply, and the Continental SportContact 2 has been superseded by the SportContact 3. An additional tyre from Bridgestone has now been included as officially recommended fitment, the Potenza RE050A.

For 19" wheels, the standard tyre fitted was 255/35 ZR19 96Y XL. However, there were debates as to how safe 19" wheels and tyres are,[citation needed] as the XL rating achieves a 96 Load Index (710 kg (1,565 lb) load rating). In contrast, the 255/40 ZR18 XL will get you 99 Load Index, good for 775 kg (1,709 lb) per tyre. Current officially recommended tyres from ETKA for the 19" rims only include the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 and the Continental ContiSportContact 3.

For what it's worth, if you are not a speed demon then the 18"s will give you a slightly more comfortable/softer ride.

[Fingers01]

The law of contract is pretty clear on the issue of deposits.

“If the intention was that the money should be deposited as an earnest or guarantee for the due performance of the payer’s obligations, the rule at common law is that it is forfeited to the payee upon discharge of the contract upon for the default of the payer, not withstanding that it would have gone in part payment of the price had the contract been completed. The payer cannot insist on abandoning the contract and yet recover his deposit because it would enable him to take advantage of own wrong doingâ€

[paddybrenn]

Ok, I'll be a little more helpful this time.

UK - standard was 19", no cost option was 18", as per my UK RS6 brochure from 2002/3.

There were total of three original equipment manufacturer (OEM) roadwheel and tyre types produced for the RS6. In Europe and elsewhere, 19" wheels were standard, with an optional 18" package. In the U.S. market, the 18" package was the only available offering. An 18" winter package, with Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 tyres (225/45 ZR18 95V) was universally available.

For 18" wheels, the standard tyre fitted was 255/40 ZR18 99Y XL with eXtraLoad (XL) rating. This is often stressed, and is the only recommendation by Audi, as RS6 does weigh 1,865 kilograms (4,112 lb). Tyres which are not rated XL are not safe (nor legal, in most countries) for use. Owners reported finding Continental ContiSportContact 2, Dunlop SP Sport 9000, Michelin Pilot Sport PS2, and Pirelli P-Zero Rosso as OEM suppliers for tyres on the RS6. However, according to ETKA, the Dunlop and Pirelli tyres were subsequently withdrawn from official supply, and the Continental SportContact 2 has been superseded by the SportContact 3. An additional tyre from Bridgestone has now been included as officially recommended fitment, the Potenza RE050A.

For 19" wheels, the standard tyre fitted was 255/35 ZR19 96Y XL. However, there were debates as to how safe 19" wheels and tyres are,[citation needed] as the XL rating achieves a 96 Load Index (710 kg (1,565 lb) load rating). In contrast, the 255/40 ZR18 XL will get you 99 Load Index, good for 775 kg (1,709 lb) per tyre. Current officially recommended tyres from ETKA for the 19" rims only include the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 and the Continental ContiSportContact 3.

For what it's worth, if you are not a speed demon then the 18"s will give you a slightly more comfortable/softer ride.

That makes very interesting reading - thanks

[paddybrenn]

Was there any small print on the form you signed?

Someone on Tyresmoke about 3 or 4 years ago had a similar issue with an indy and went all round the houses to get their deposit back in what appears to be similar circumstances to yourself. I'll see if I can dig out the thread, but won't be for a while as I'm working.

Thanks for that MoRS6+, would be interesting reading.

Basically I haven't signed a thing. I verbally spoke to one of the sales guys over the phone and he said the deposit was subject to me being happy. He did not say it was subject to it being fixed, nor did he mention it was non-refundable.

I fully agree if it was a standard deposit and I failed to complete the purchase that I would lose my deposit. But the verbal agreement was specifically if I was not happy I could have it back. Ah well, I've drafted an email for my solicitor to read and then I'll send it off. Its just frustrating to be in this situation when I believed it was a black and white verbal agreement.

[chunky79]

Wasn't a red rs6 was it?

[CliveH]

Setting aside other factors, that is by far the biggest problem in this instance - there is nothing in black and white.

[Shoppinit]

Then the benefit of the doubt must go to the buyer. He has spent money, has proof, but has no car or anythign to show for it. I believe that a small claims court would come down on his side. Costs nothing to try. Send the dealer a letter with the N1 form filled in except for the signature giving him a last chance to refund your money.

It's worth giving a call to the nearest trading standards office (nearest to him) to ask if there have been other complaints about him. Don't forget to ask for information on the trader "under the freedom of information act".

[mattmitch]

hey chunky79 thats my Rs forsale and theres fek all wrong with my gearbox,