RS246.com Forum :: The World's #1 Audi R, S and RS Enthusiast Community

Would like a little advice!

I presently own an E46 M3 (53 plate) and due to changes in my job am going to change my car to something a little larger. I have two choices, an RS6 sedan or an A8 W12 SWB. While both cars have their appeal, I have driven a new A8 4.2 extensively and thus, is the car I know a lot more about.

For it's size, it is an amazing car and when you add sport suspension, handles far better than many would imagine. Add to that all the fun toys - adaptive cruise, keyless-go, adaptive lights, etc, etc, and it's one hell of a car. I can only imagine how much fun the 6.0ltr W12 is going to be in standard wheel base form. I have confirmed with Audi that I will be able to order this car in Avus and change the wood inside to Piano black trim, so along with the 20" wheels, it should look pretty tasty.

But, I still hear the lure of an RS6 - and while my dealer is offering to lend me his demo for a few days, it would be nice to hear your opinions. I'm a little worried that the technology is 7-years old and that the car will feel a little dated next to a fresh Audi like the A8 - thoughts? Also, as I will be ordering the car from new, if I went the RS route, are the sports suspension upgrade and exhaust good choices to add?

Thanks in advance guys - I really would appreciate some educated views!

Simon

If you spend a lot of time in your car, then you will like the A8, its systems are so good. By contrast the RS6 quickly becomes boring, its just fast, even the monster ones with 550 bhp plus are just boring after a bit, and you notice that the build quality is NOT as good as it should be.

The RS6 is a lot more growly, and very rapid, but is that what you want? The extra space, gadgets and quality of the A8 is probably more your scene. I have only been in the new A8 briefly, and I was very impressed. I can understand the appeal of an RS6, I love them to bits, but I think for everyday business use, particularly if you cover a lot of boring miles, the A8 is the best option. The W12 engine is fantastically smooth and powerful, loads of torque easily available.

Sam

Nordschleife wrote: By contrast the RS6 quickly becomes boring, its just fast - the build quality is NOT as good as it should be.

The new M5 will have more class, better build quality and will remain interesting for years to come - it's all about pedigree. For my money only the quattro sport and RS2 had any appeal.

The new M5 will have more class, better build quality and will remain interesting for years to come

Yes but it's a proper Nazi wagon, and no doubt there'll be thousands of them littering Essex before long Not a fan of BMW, Audi preference for sure!!!

Sam

I have driven the new A8, and I like it in a very cheeky way. Toys and gadgets a plenty!

BUT, and it's a big but - I was sat in the garage with the Master Tech the other day. I asked him:

RS6: Built on a dated chassis, this though is not a bad thing because it means they have had years to work it out, the suspension is great, and the car is the most connected in the range right now. Some new tech has been thrown in for good measure - and apart from the brakes they are a bloody good car.

A8: Nice but NO! - NOT YET!...... He was having lots of problems with A8's right now, "some good systems.. but" He is having to firmware update cars on a weekly basis at the moment. The Interface systems are causing too many headaches at the moment.

My take, I'm 26 and I love my Red RS6, when I'm 50-55 I'll be in an A8.... probably driven by someone else

boff wrote:A8: Nice but NO! - NOT YET!...... He was having lots of problems with A8's right now, "some good systems.. but" He is having to firmware update cars on a weekly basis at the moment. The Interface systems are causing too many headaches at the moment.

My take, I'm 26 and I love my Red RS6, when I'm 50-55 I'll be in an A8.... probably driven by someone else

Well for a start, I'm 33, so I'm far from 50-55

However, my concern is it can look like an 'oldies' car; however, in Avus, with 20" wheels, the ABT de rear spoiler (subtle but does add something) and black leather with grey piping, piano black trim, I think it will go from A8 to W12 S8 pretty damn quick. Audi intend the A8 W12 SWB to be a sporting model, hence, the stigma over a luxo-barg Merc can be avoided IMHO

As for problems, I know someone who has had the 4.2 petrol for 7-months and has only had one small issue - his nav voice has disappeared on two trips - other than that, the A8 has been quality, enjoyable and looks far better than any other big sedan on the market.

As for the response to the RS6, I'm a little surprised! I expected to get - BUY IT, BUY IT, BUY IT! But people seem to have really got a downer on it? Are you guys disappointed owners, or just not a fan of the car?

Thanks for the feedback so far, please keep it coming!

As for the M5, power is nothing without control and if you've ever driven an E46 M3, you'll know they have trouble putting the power down in damp weather, wet is just terrible because the DSC always cuts in. Hence, a 500bhp M5 is a nice idea but I really doubt the car will be a lot of fun when you push it in any conditions other than perfectly dry weather - otherwise the DSC will cut the power every chance it gets. Add to that the awful Bangle styling and I'm not a big fan. If it was 4WD, perhaps... but not as it stands.

how about an a8 w12 with an mtm exhaust and chip and polished up like this?

http://www.tyresmoke.net/ubbthreads/sho ... o=&fpart=1[/img]

nomis wrote:Are you guys disappointed owners, or just not a fan of the car?

I'm 50 and have had my RS6 (Avant) for 10 months. I'm very pleased with it, having previously had an A6 2.7T Avant. I'm not into saloons, not having owned one since 1980, so the A8 isn't my choice - but you obviously have different expectations. I would have been very interested in the Avantissimo, if that had ever come to production.

You seem to be taken with the latest toys as offered by the A8, and if I had a dissappointment with the RS6, it would be the lack of toys. Rain-sensing wipers, automatic lights, keyless operation, powered door closure, adaptive cruise etc are becoming available on many more mundane cars - what does the RS6 have? Tyre-pressure monitoring, parking sensors, fixed speed cruise. You can't even get seat memory (with the auto dip door mirror in reverse etc.).

I still wouldn't swap my RS6 for anything else that's currently available, but it sounds as though your priorities may be different. If you're expecting to have all the modern features, then go with the A8 - on the other hand if you want a rapid stealth machine then the RS6 may well fit your bill. Take up your dealer's offer of the weekend loan - you'll soon know whether it's the car you want.

Oh, advice on the optional suspension/exhaust: the standard suspension is already pretty firm and low. I haven't tried the optional setup, but I don't think I would like it around urban streets with their potholes and speed bumps. Opinions on the exhaust are that it doesn't offer any significant performance benefits and it's not even obvious that the sound is markedly different. Save the money and go straight to an aftermarket system which you can choose to match your preference.

i would love to do that to our a8.jus worried about salt and stonechips

Now that is something special - but how much???

It's quite a cool Audi thing in my opinion, this polishing up the bare aluminium. As for stone chips, what can be done is having all the lacquer coatings etc. that you would have on normal paint, but transparent versions, so it would still have the same protection as any normal paint, and of course it's only going to chip off a clear layer, not a painted surface to reveal the metal. Would be an absolute bastard to keep looking like that though! The new shape A8 does look good when it's been beefed up, ie the exhausts, mild lowering, the 20" wheels etc.

Sam

nomis wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far, please keep it coming!

Well, I've done 31k miles in my RS 6, and I've driven 3.7, 4.2 and 4.0D A8s as well as my fair share of old A8s/S8s, so hopefully I'm not talking total dribble...

The RS 6 is a fantastic car, for what it is. It inevitably gets compared to pure-bred sports cars because of it's performance potential, which I think is sometimes a little unfair. quattro GmbH were basically given a cart horse (nobody can call the C5 a real driver's car with a straight face) and told to make it run the Grand National. I think given what they had to start with, and the resources they had available, they didn't do a bad job.

However, it's a C5. The engine and gearbox are heavy. They are a long way forward, and a lot of weight sits over the front axle. The DRC suspension trickery makes for nice flat high-speed motoring, and limits roll on corners, but it can't defy physics and take out the understeer that's inherent in the design. Really the RS 6 is more at home on reasonably fast (80-120mph) sweeping corners, but above that it can become a bit detached and floaty, and in much tighter corners, understeer will chew away at the tyres and usually one of the electronic nannies steps in and really hampers your progress - it's programmed to act later, but it's just as ham-fisted when it does as the rest of the Audi range.

All is not doom & gloom though. The surge of acceleration is addictive, as is the noise it makes as it does so. The gearbox is quick-changing mechanically, even though DSP sometimes lets it snooze in Drive. Either use Sport mode, or (my preference) keep it in Tip out of town and make your own gearchange descisions. The Bose stereo is reasonable for a factory-fit, there's better out there, but there's a lot worse as well. It's pretty bassy, if slightly 'muddy' sometimes. With 8 pistons, the clamping power of the front calipers is impressive and makes for rapid stops, but the pads are small and the cooling isn't sufficient to withstand repeated heavy use, and it's easy to get the front pads smoking with a fairly short spirited drive.

I still love it though. That shove as the engine thumps and thuds (in a good way) it's way through the revs is incredible, and barely lets up through the gears. It will keep pulling and pulling. It can be "twanged" round fairly fast corners (80-90mph) and it isn't unsettled by repeated left/right transitions under those kind of conditions - good for english minor A roads and better quality B roads.


So, to the A8. Well, it's got far more toys and a much more modern feel. Having driven a few variants, I'm quite impressed. I got to attend a pre-launch day at Millbrook proving grounds, where I drove one round the Alpine track, high-speed bowl and through a slalom & 'elk test' set. Even with the suspension set to Comfort, it can be thrown around by even an inexperienced driver with a lot of tyre squeal, but no real drama. The chassis is quite well sorted for such a big car and the dynamics are surprising.

The A8s I've driven all pretty much handled the same way regardless of engine. I hope this means the design is reasonably well able to be balanced with differing engine weights, so hopefully the W12 will still handle as well as it's V8 siblings. I'm supposedly booked in for a test drive in May, so I should know more then. If it's as good as the V8-engined A8s, but with most of the RS 6's performance, I could be a convert.

One thing bothers me though - the brochures show LWB and SWB versions, but Audi UK's web site only lists prices for LWB. Audi UK tend to view the prist lists as authoritative, if it isn't on there you don't get it. I hope either they do bring an SWB W12 over, or the LWB doesn't affect handling in a bad way if they don't.