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service fluid frequency
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:22 pm
by anditsoundslikebells
I'm about to purchase 8litres of Motuls finest 300v 5w40
got me to thinking i'm not clear on all oiuls and how often i should change them
i know there are many oil posts, i'm hoping this is a quick topic...
can anyone fill in the blanks for me?
(and correct/discuss the specs)
Engine Oil (Motul 300v 5w40) (8L) Every Year (or two?)
Transmission Oil (ZF Lifeguard Fluid 6) ?
Front/Rear Diff Oil (Motul 300) ?
Transfer Box Oil (Motul 300 LS) ?
Coolant (P999-G12-Superplus) ?
(I am new to high performance cars and attempting some things myself)
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:59 am
by mavada
It is recommended to use a 505 01 diesel spec engine oil:)
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:01 am
by Mɐʇʇ
You’ve got 2 oils wrong there, I think.
Use a 505.01 oil as Mav says. Now, that motul you’ve chosen is a good oil, but iirc it doesn’t meet the spec. Is that because it wasn’t tested, or it doesn’t have the right additive pack in? Why chance it. There is a white paper somewhere by the white coats explaining why our engines benefit from that diesel oil spec. It’s to do with oil supply to the turbos. But we all run a sensible cool down and warm up cycle in our classic cars now, don’t we?
(I use that Motul oil in my boat engine)
And gearbox oil. See linky i updated last weekend. It’s ZF Lifeguard 5, not 6, that the box needs. Potentially 8 litres of the stuff
Personally, I do engine oil annually, gearbox oil every other year, the diff oils less frequently and the coolant in line with cam belt changes. And I’m currently doing about 3000 miles a year on my wagon.
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:46 am
by mavada
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:10 pm
by steve2003rs6
Just to add one more to the list. Brake fluid every two years.
I do the rest as per matts list above.
But I do around 7-8 K miles per year.
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:24 pm
by anditsoundslikebells
thanks for the corrections.
i guessed that the forum would have a more specific approach than the general recommendations i got from industry.
interestingly, it was Teo from Teo Motorsport, who spec'd ZF Lifeguard 6... now I have enough for a transmission oil change. Maybe he wasn't being as specific as you guys.
It was also him you used the 300v. Again, maybe not being spoecific.
As it's been two years since the transmission was rebuilt i'll treat it to some new oil also.
Thanks again!
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:55 pm
by Mɐʇʇ
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:06 pm
by Mɐʇʇ
And on the engine oil. I don’t disagree, the motul 300v is a great oil. But will it make a bit of difference to your RS6 and does it have the right additive pack? I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I am saying the 505.01 spec is dictated for our cars for a reason - google it. I feel sure that with frequent changes and a careful warm up and cool down cycle, Duckhams Q probably wouldn’t do any damage. But I choose not to use that either.
If anything, I’d say you’re wasting money on the 300V, iirc it is very expensive too.
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:32 am
by anditsoundslikebells
On the engine, I'm going to go with the Motul 505.01 spec above. That makes sense.
On the transmission. I wonder if have the transmission rebuilt non-standard has an impact on Lifeguard 5 vs 6. When Teo rebuilt it he changed some of the internals. I wrote it down in my post back then. I'll dig it out.
viewtopic.php?t=139273#p948847
Does anyone have the technical knowledge to assess if this would impact Lifeguard 5 vs 6?
I'll give Teo a call to get his thoughts & post here.
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:49 pm
by anditsoundslikebells
I just spoke with Teo from Teo Motors:
http://www.teomotors.pl/en/
Teo rebuilt and uprated my transmission (full story in the link above):
Torque Converter Spec: Cut/weld. Change valve body seating. On the new ZF increase torque a little bit on spring, to get more resistance. Reduce distance at the face of TC for oil, to reduce slip. (TC, could produce new central veins) not enough cars to produce bespoke, 5 a year.
Valve body: Change spring. Produced by Teo, higher pressure.
Input shaft 1.85 OE new model, up from 1.65.
ZF overall kit
More friction plates:
Original OE friction plates made thinner steel plates. Exody or Borg Warner for ZF friction plates.
4th gear has 2 more plates (8 instead of 6)
2/3 6 instead of 5
A clutch is standard. Stong enough
B 4&5 2 more FP
C only reverse
D 3&5 2 more FP
E 2 1 more FP
Brake F
Transmission good for service at 60k. ZF Liveguard 6 transmission oil
I then sent my TCU to 034 Motorsport for their "Tip Chip":
https://www.034motorsport.com/c5-audi-r ... grade.html
Teo said to use ZF Lifeguard 6 as the transmission has been uprated, with an uprated engien, and I'm asking the transmisison to change gear quicker than OEM.
As a layman, his logic makes sense. As he spends all day rebuilding & uprating ZF transmissions, his experience carries some weight.
Now I want to understands the differences between 5 & 6 myslef to be informed. I'm now leaning towards 6. I wonder what the risk is?
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:44 pm
by Mɐʇʇ
Fair enough. I didn’t know your gearbox was modified and I’d be speaking out of turn if I claimed to know the intricacies of matching the oil to the box.
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:34 am
by Mɐʇʇ
Just reading your specs. Tell us a bit more about his box….
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:34 pm
by Shoppinit
Lifeguard 5 and 6 are completely different oils. The 5 is mineral based and the 6 is synthetic (or more synthetic). I don't know what effect using the 6 in a 5HPx box would be, but ZF specify LG5 for the 5HP and LG6 for the 6HP.
It might not make any practical difference to how the box runs. I don't believe there is much difference in how the mechanicals of a 6HPx work versus the 5HPx. I suspect that if you have been using LG6 without any immediate issues, and that you replace the ATF regularly, which I'm sure you do anyway, then it's probably not worth thinking about it too much.
As for the oil, this is what Quattro GmbH said when asked:
Hanns Breiter quattro GmbH wrote:Most oil companies have been phasing out engine oil according to VW
specification 50501 because of the low demand. This oil was once meant to be used in heavy duty Diesel engines
but due to its outstanding shear stability under high temperature we decided to use it for the RS 6 V8 twin turbo
engine. The main reason for this move was the position of the turbo chargers which are pretty far located from
the engine block and therefore from the oil supplying pump. After driving under extreme conditions, e.g. with
high speed or under high load for a longer period of time and very high outside temperature, the oil pressure
could drop to low levels when going back to idle.
Theoretically, engine oil to VW specification 50500 is not able to compensate the attributes of VW 50501 but the
viscosity range of 0W-40 will stabilize oil pressure when the engine and turbo chargers are extremely hot. Hence,
potential engine damage is not really an issue if VW 50500 is being used and there is no necessity to do drain this
oil immediately.
The official substitute of VW specification 50501 is actually VW 50400, even it is mostly available in 5W-30, for
example but without official endorsement MOBIL 1 ESP FORMULA 5W-30. We recommend to use VW 50400 when
the next engine oil service is due (every 15000 km).
Kind Regards & Merry Christmas
Hanns Breiter
quattro GmbH
Kundendienst
quattro GmbH
N/VQ-52
Postfach 1144
As for the diffs and transfer box, the OE stuff is fine. It's expensive but you don't need massive quantities of it. I don't think this oil is critical, so as long as you get the best branded oil you can get at the specified viscosity then you can't really do wrong. It's not like my M3 where you have to put a friction modifier in, in exactly the right proportion, to make sure the LSD works correctly. I think my LSD might be a bit on the overenthusiastic side because I can hear/feel it chattering when on full lock, but at least I know I haven't gone too far the other way.
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2023 1:44 pm
by anditsoundslikebells
Re: service fluid frequency
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:46 pm
by Mɐʇʇ
That’ll do