Just had the dyno session. A little perplexed and somewhat disappointed. Disappointed about the figure and that due to the covid restriction level I wasn't able to be there to log key sensors like boost pressure. The Shop wasn't able to connect to the car properly to get to the measuring blocks. They tried 3 scanners one of which was a Rosstech. They could get into identify and scan but not to the measuring blocks...
Even at 25% PT loss I'm missing ~20kw, 20% should have the car putting out ~264kw. Anyone know stock wheel Kw numbers on these cars?
It was a warm day 28c and humid. But the runs were done with a non-heat soaked engine. Power runs were just as the oil temps got to ~75-80 degrees.
If this wkw figure is real, bummer need to get a tune done. If not, this thread will begin my quest to hunt down and destroy (replace then destroy) whatever is causing the loss.
Who nicked my kilowatts?
Who nicked my kilowatts?
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Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
That's what, 380 bhp approx when back calculated?
When I had mine done, it came out at 463 PS, 385 at the wheels. That's 340kW and 283WkW respectively. That was running the stock map. So that's not far off 20% transmission loss.
28 degrees is quite warm. Mine was done at 18.
I had another dyno done at another place after my map. I'll try to find it.
When I had mine done, it came out at 463 PS, 385 at the wheels. That's 340kW and 283WkW respectively. That was running the stock map. So that's not far off 20% transmission loss.
28 degrees is quite warm. Mine was done at 18.
I had another dyno done at another place after my map. I'll try to find it.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
First thing I would do is go for a drive and log your boost against rpm. My torque peaked at 3000 rpm whereas yours looks more like 5000. It's suggestive of the car struggling to make full pressure, but could be anything or just mapping related given the temp. How long had the car been running before the dyno run? Was the ATF up to temperature?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
What's that "boost" graph? What's it showing and what are the units?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Hi Shop, 278kw is the adjusted crank output, it's putting out 228 atw. So the dyno Shop is using an 18% pt loss. Bottom graph is the afr at the tailpipe, should have boost there too but they weren't up to figuring out where to get the boost reference from after they couldn't link into the ecu.
Interesting point about your peak torque rpm.
Car was just warmed up before the run, so not hot. Dropped to 225kw atw for the second run indicating the heat beginning to make itself felt. Not sure about ATF temp, I'd assume they'd warm things up on the dyno as opposed to at idle specifically for power train temps.
I'm going to do just as you say, do some runs around 50kph to 120/130 and log boost, rpm etc.
Scanned the car without any issues, I wonder why the Shop had trouble connecting.
What sensor fault popped up, sensor 1 P1455 G235. Cleared and will double check later.
If the egt was bung, any ideas as to the symptoms it would cause? No MIL/CEL lights on dash.
Interesting point about your peak torque rpm.
Car was just warmed up before the run, so not hot. Dropped to 225kw atw for the second run indicating the heat beginning to make itself felt. Not sure about ATF temp, I'd assume they'd warm things up on the dyno as opposed to at idle specifically for power train temps.
I'm going to do just as you say, do some runs around 50kph to 120/130 and log boost, rpm etc.
Scanned the car without any issues, I wonder why the Shop had trouble connecting.
What sensor fault popped up, sensor 1 P1455 G235. Cleared and will double check later.
If the egt was bung, any ideas as to the symptoms it would cause? No MIL/CEL lights on dash.
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Faulty EGT could reduce in reduced power / incorrect mapping for the conditions. Lots of sensors are used to optimise fuelling, EGT being one of them.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Can't tune your way out of a problem with a stock car. That way madness lies.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
While in there with the measuring blocks I see a couple of questionable numbers. Mass air flow and phase position.
For mass air flow, what's an acceptable difference and what (if both a wrong) is a 'normal' reading?
Phase position, similar questions to above. Block 94 Camshaft Adjustment, showed me System OK results for both banks. Block 90 was showing/flicking (@ idle) between -0.5°KW and 0°KW adjustments for both banks.
Neither component or area are giving any codes. Only engine codes I have are rhs engine mount and the egt code.
For mass air flow, what's an acceptable difference and what (if both a wrong) is a 'normal' reading?
Phase position, similar questions to above. Block 94 Camshaft Adjustment, showed me System OK results for both banks. Block 90 was showing/flicking (@ idle) between -0.5°KW and 0°KW adjustments for both banks.
Neither component or area are giving any codes. Only engine codes I have are rhs engine mount and the egt code.
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Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Wow. I think your manifolds would be close to getting slagged.
/Possibly map might be upping fuelling to lower exhaust temps. Not really sure.
Last edited by Shoppinit on Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Yeah, phase position looks out of spec. Let the fun start...
As for the MAF readings, the one you've highlighted looks good. It's the other one that looks low. Might have a small leak somewhere. Need to log up the rev range.
As for the MAF readings, the one you've highlighted looks good. It's the other one that looks low. Might have a small leak somewhere. Need to log up the rev range.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Damn. Bank 1 is passenger side (RHD) yeah? I've recepts for the cam tensioner being done on the drivers side, and it is new going by its appearance when I was sortng out an oil leak.
Guess I have to retime the engine, I'm assuming a bad tensioner should throw a code?? If I'm not getting a code it could be the chain or tensioner pad? Faaaaark it all.
Hopefully this weekend I can do some runs logging the 12 sensors in that last pic. Perhaps replace the combined maf signal with ignition timing.
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Check your groups 90-93 for the cam timing. See what dephasing values you get when you go over 3000rpm.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
If you are on the original EGT sensors you might be able to re solder the joints in the Black and Brown boxes and fix it.
Avus Avant, RNS-E mk2 with sds and Bluetooth, Milltek, Hotchkis, Bilstein, Forge, ITG, A.C.E, Wagner, FBMFSW, MTM.
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