Ill give it a shot, hopefully the damage is obvious.- I remember seeing a reference to a DIY fix but can find it, or it didn't have much detail.
Who nicked my kilowatts?
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
You can also buy new ones and swap the wires going to it, but it's not for the faint hearted from what I've seen.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
As Bilko says, if you pop the back off the EGT box (it just unclips) and the potting compound is a jelly like substance, I think it's not too hard too do. Mine were like this.
The later ones are (I think) silicone potting compound. I suppose technically still doable but would require more patience. Mine were the early ones.
You should be able to see in VCDS if you're getting inconsistent readings though - I saw this one time when I scanned mine. Cleared it and it stayed clear for a week or two and then popped back.
I was all set attempt a repair, but in the end I had a list of jobs to do (F125 and so forth) and I just wrapped this one in to it last time I had the engine out and put new boxes in. I have 2 sets of "used" boxes though that are old style I have held on to "for the community" that I believe will both be repairable.
However, as an experiment, I did also see if I thought I could get access to the EGT with engine still in. I believe if you get to the point where the gearbox mounts are out and the rear subframe has a 50mm chock in it, you have sufficient access to get to both them and the upper lambdas. It's just a question of whether you've had to remove so much by this point that you might as well remove the whole damn engine.
The later ones are (I think) silicone potting compound. I suppose technically still doable but would require more patience. Mine were the early ones.
You should be able to see in VCDS if you're getting inconsistent readings though - I saw this one time when I scanned mine. Cleared it and it stayed clear for a week or two and then popped back.
I was all set attempt a repair, but in the end I had a list of jobs to do (F125 and so forth) and I just wrapped this one in to it last time I had the engine out and put new boxes in. I have 2 sets of "used" boxes though that are old style I have held on to "for the community" that I believe will both be repairable.
However, as an experiment, I did also see if I thought I could get access to the EGT with engine still in. I believe if you get to the point where the gearbox mounts are out and the rear subframe has a 50mm chock in it, you have sufficient access to get to both them and the upper lambdas. It's just a question of whether you've had to remove so much by this point that you might as well remove the whole damn engine.
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Thanks team. I'm going to do some logging to check the 3k+ phasor readings in block 90. Pretty sure they both match and peg at 22.5 or something but will log regardless. Boost and the control of is what I'm leaning towards being a bit if a problem. Whatever comes from the logging I'll have a list where pulling apart the egt box will.be on.
Engine will.come.oit if I have to do the sensor, I've a small rear main seal leak that needs dealing to.
Engine will.come.oit if I have to do the sensor, I've a small rear main seal leak that needs dealing to.
Last edited by Lander91 on Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
I've got a pair of those SID motorsport pcb's unfortunately I have the later EGT's and the potting is a nightmare.
Avus Avant, RNS-E mk2 with sds and Bluetooth, Milltek, Hotchkis, Bilstein, Forge, ITG, A.C.E, Wagner, FBMFSW, MTM.
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Hi team.
Did some logging over the weekend, but while I'm sorting through the data has anyone got dyno sheets they can post so I can see what the curves look like? I'm mainly interested in seeing the torque curve.
I might end up taking the 6 to another dyno Shop to sanity check the 1st run. Hopefully there's no huge differences, though one a couple of things have me a little concerned, one being their ability to connect their VCDS to my car - I can with mine. Second, they weren't able to identify and attach anything to get a hardline boost reading - take your pick really - or maybe they could be bothered trying to lift the engine cover(s)...
Did some logging over the weekend, but while I'm sorting through the data has anyone got dyno sheets they can post so I can see what the curves look like? I'm mainly interested in seeing the torque curve.
I might end up taking the 6 to another dyno Shop to sanity check the 1st run. Hopefully there's no huge differences, though one a couple of things have me a little concerned, one being their ability to connect their VCDS to my car - I can with mine. Second, they weren't able to identify and attach anything to get a hardline boost reading - take your pick really - or maybe they could be bothered trying to lift the engine cover(s)...
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Yeah, dynos are notoriously random, especially when back calculating transmission losses. And worse with all wheel drive cars. It's not a good sign that they couldn't connect even an ODB2 real time reader. IIRC the boost (or manifold pressure) is available as an ODB2 data feed.
Here's my plot on a 100% stock car:
Here's my plot on a 100% stock car:
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Thanks Shop. I'm slowly plotting both curves (approximate), then I'll compare this chart with the log data.
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
So, I gave up messing around with the data to try to map actual boost and requested boost etc to the dyno results - despite me owing an RS6 I do have a limit to my masochism.
I'm focusing on the EGT error code instead. Luckily they seem original that is they're potted with the snot that only seems to want to stick to skin.
Anyway I wanted to ask those who have done the re-solder if they saw an issue e.g. crack, before they used the iron. Or did everything seem fine on the board but re-soldering worked anyway?
The joints on the 5 board connections seemed to be in good order (only looking at one side) but I applied heat and re-melted them anyway. Finger's crossed, otherwise I'll be getting 2 boards off the Polish crew.
I'm focusing on the EGT error code instead. Luckily they seem original that is they're potted with the snot that only seems to want to stick to skin.
Anyway I wanted to ask those who have done the re-solder if they saw an issue e.g. crack, before they used the iron. Or did everything seem fine on the board but re-soldering worked anyway?
The joints on the 5 board connections seemed to be in good order (only looking at one side) but I applied heat and re-melted them anyway. Finger's crossed, otherwise I'll be getting 2 boards off the Polish crew.
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
1
Update: redoing the solder for the wiring seems to have solved the problem. Both egts are providing the same/similar readings, the suspect sensor is no longer showing Chernobyl level temps.
To shops point re the power, fixing the egt reading seems to have made a difference in how the car accelerates.
2
Next problem is the MAF readings, I will test the supply voltage at the plugs to confirm they're where they should be (sometimes the voltage can be low due to a duff fuel pump relay), then I will replace the maf seals on the manifold side. The wiring has been sorted with new plugs, grommet/bits and extended wiring ~7".
3
Then I need to address the cam reading and retime it now I have the proper VAS tools and genuine replacement camshaft bolts and washers.
I do wonder if point 2, 3 or both (and which bank) would cause the lambda readings to be out -7.8 vs -3.1.
3a
Then there's a slow AC leak, but I'll just top it up and dive into that closer to winter.
I'm happy the car is driving well in any case.
Update: redoing the solder for the wiring seems to have solved the problem. Both egts are providing the same/similar readings, the suspect sensor is no longer showing Chernobyl level temps.
To shops point re the power, fixing the egt reading seems to have made a difference in how the car accelerates.
2
Next problem is the MAF readings, I will test the supply voltage at the plugs to confirm they're where they should be (sometimes the voltage can be low due to a duff fuel pump relay), then I will replace the maf seals on the manifold side. The wiring has been sorted with new plugs, grommet/bits and extended wiring ~7".
3
Then I need to address the cam reading and retime it now I have the proper VAS tools and genuine replacement camshaft bolts and washers.
I do wonder if point 2, 3 or both (and which bank) would cause the lambda readings to be out -7.8 vs -3.1.
3a
Then there's a slow AC leak, but I'll just top it up and dive into that closer to winter.
I'm happy the car is driving well in any case.
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Last edited by Lander91 on Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Cool. Looks like progress.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Cheers Shop, such a faff,. especially spending 2 hrs fiddling the wiring loom(s) to get the airbox to sit right - even then its not perfect.
Re: Who nicked my kilowatts?
Yeah, the airbox is a terrible design.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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