Suspension ride height

4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 450 bhp
4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 480 bhp (plus)
steve2003rs6
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by steve2003rs6 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:47 pm

Out of interest does anyone know what material was the original bushes made of.
Hopefully not plastic?
With so many people having this problem. The bushes are obviously not up to the job.
I can feel another trip to the machine Shop in the near future to have some bushes made.

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IchBautAuto
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by IchBautAuto » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 am

Shoppinit wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:36 am
Sorry, I didn't understand. No doubt my fault. Can you explain again what you don't agree with in a way that a thicko like me can understand? :thumbs:

Don't think there are any PSS10 for the RS6 are there?
I was told / assured that the PSS9 info is the same. It is second hand info as I don't use PSS9 on either car. I've reduced it to a thumbnail sketch plus some attempted explanation but it's probably the accent that is confusing you. The vehicle is stationary in all instances and no dynamic forces are applied.
damper.jpg
There is the damper body, piston rod and spring pack if you use your imagination.

A. The assembled damper on the bench at factory height setting. The assembled spring length is at it's longest.

B. The assembled damper at factory height setting installed on the car loaded with corner weight (i.e.car sitting on the ground)

C. The assembled damper with lowered ride height on the car loaded with corner weight

D. The assembled damper with raised ride height on the car loaded with corner weight

E. The assembled damper with the piston rod fully extended and additional spring preload on the car loaded with corner weight (don't know if this is even possible).

The spring length is at it's longest at A.

The spring length is identical in B, C and D, as long as no restriction is on the piston rod through bottoming or topping out.

The spring length is theoretically at it's shortest in E as it is pre loaded even with the corner weight applied.

Lets assume the front left and right corner weight is 550 KG each, so the spring pack will deflect / compress a set amount for that applied weight. No matter if the ride height is at factory, lowered or raised, the spring pack length will remain constant while the vehicle is stationary if the piston rod is free to move.

Within the range of adjustment AND with the piston rod neither bottoming nor topping out in use, the only variable is the damping. Constrained purely by the corner weight, the spring pack will always be the same fitted length.

So, the factory appear to have a very tight limit on ride height adjustment, no doubt for some design reason, and some users have issues with ride height adjustment outcomes. All I'm attempting to get across is a minor raising of the ride height cannot in itself change the spring rate, which seems to be a bit of a myth floating around. The choice of dampering settings or the condition of the helper spring may have some part to play in perceived ride harshness.
C5 RS6, Milltek and Wagners: B5 RS4 450 + HP: A4 1.8 GP TQS original: 1963 UNIMOG 404:

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chunky79
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by chunky79 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:17 am

steve2003rs6 wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:47 pm
Out of interest does anyone know what material was the original bushes made of.
Hopefully not plastic?
With so many people having this problem. The bushes are obviously not up to the job.
I can feel another trip to the machine Shop in the near future to have some bushes made.
Best bet is ask Grizz. As said before, he used to have some made for him so he's your best bet Steve.
previous- Pug 205 gti, 306 gti, 309 gti Goodwood.
Audi S3, S4 V8 avant.
Porsche Macan Turbo.
Gone but NEVER forgotten - C5 RS6 Misano red avant.

Now - Empty garage

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there!

steve2003rs6
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by steve2003rs6 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:43 am

Thank you dunc.
I will be in Neston very soon so will see what grizz recommends. Cheers mate.

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Shoppinit
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by Shoppinit » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:38 pm

IchBautAuto wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:23 am
Stuff
Ok. I see what you are saying now. Thanks for the diagrams.

Yeah, I think you might be right. I do seem to remember being surprised that when I wound the spring seat up it didn’t raise the car by the same amount though. At least that was my impression. Long time ago now admittedly.

So with the car raised as high as OE which is more than the TÜV specs I should have plenty of travel. Maybe what I’m experiencing is the piston rod hitting the end of travel then.

/I remember that I called Bilstein UK to see if it would be a problem to go outside the recommended height range. They said no, but they sounded a bit doubtful about most things I asked.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

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IchBautAuto
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by IchBautAuto » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:41 pm

Despite all that was said there remains a few potential influencers like shorter damper body? the way the valving works internally and so on. I'd hazard a guess that those who have accepted the factory settings are most happiest with the outcomes but low riding isn't for all of us, nor the non-track road surfaces and obstacles that abound.
C5 RS6, Milltek and Wagners: B5 RS4 450 + HP: A4 1.8 GP TQS original: 1963 UNIMOG 404:

steve2003rs6
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by steve2003rs6 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:16 pm

Just itching to try the cable tie fix to see if the pedal box is my problem.

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Shoppinit
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by Shoppinit » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:10 pm

Cable ties are useful. Might work on your wife too next time she starts to complain about costs of RS6. ;)
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

steve2003rs6
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by steve2003rs6 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:57 pm

Now that’s a good idea.
Cable tie her to the 4 poster.
Then I can disappear to the living room
And watch the football in peace.
Last edited by steve2003rs6 on Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chunky79
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by chunky79 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:55 pm

steve2003rs6 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:16 pm
Just itching to try the cable tie fix to see if the pedal box is my problem.
I'm baffled as to why you haven't done it yet Steve! Get on it, it'll take you 20 minutes maximum.
previous- Pug 205 gti, 306 gti, 309 gti Goodwood.
Audi S3, S4 V8 avant.
Porsche Macan Turbo.
Gone but NEVER forgotten - C5 RS6 Misano red avant.

Now - Empty garage

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there!

steve2003rs6
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by steve2003rs6 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:25 pm

Yes dunc. Will do it tomorrow. Busy ish day today. Very Busy day Friday.
If it works I just know I will have to do a permanent remedy. Be it at Neston or with the help of some friends.

steve2003rs6
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by steve2003rs6 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:31 pm

All done today. 5 cable ties fitted. Now to see if it works.
Fingers crossed.
The step by step guide was spot on and made the process very easy.

Foxmeister
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by Foxmeister » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:43 pm

steve2003rs6 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:31 pm
All done today. 5 cable ties fitted. Now to see if it works.
Fingers crossed.
The step by step guide was spot on and made the process very easy.
How far is the test drive? Come on, how did it go???

I also have to do the cable tie job, always felt like the firewall was about to disconnect from the car when i first experienced it, thought i had bought a dog so was glad to see that there was a fix for this

steve2003rs6
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by steve2003rs6 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:38 pm

Foxmeister.
One hell of a test drive on Britain’s worst road. The A180 from Barnetby top to cleethorpes.
No noise or any vibration through the steering column.
Just pure joy.
Cannot believe the transformation
If I had known about this fix before it could have saved me a lot of money.
And yes. It did take 20 mins.
Thank you all for letting me know about this fix.
Forever grateful
Ps
Didn’t want to stop driving I just kept on going. Steered at all the crap surfaces and it was soooooo pleasant. This has got to be the best tip ever.
Also hit the 300 yards of speed retarders at 60 mph unbelievable not a murmur. Usually have to reduce my speed to 30 mph and allow fiat punto,s to overtake me on this section.
Last edited by steve2003rs6 on Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Mark-RS
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Re: Suspension ride height

Post by Mark-RS » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:53 pm

Really glad you got it sorted ! Also glad it's a good cheap fix for once ! :-)

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