Speakers Amps etc

4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 450 bhp
4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 480 bhp (plus)
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Mark-RS
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Speakers Amps etc

Post by Mark-RS » Mon May 24, 2021 2:56 pm

I have the Bose system in my car, but despite upgrading the Head Unit, I'm still left very underwhelmed by the whole system.

It seems very flat, almost no detail and midrange and the sub provides decent enough punch but no real low end bass and clarity. Typical I guess of most Bose speakers.

Has anyone changed much in their cars ? I know many want to keep everything standard and OEM and I do plan on keeping everything I replace, if/when I sell down the line, but there must be some here that have opted to make things better ?

A few start off questions.

1. I believe the main speakers to be 6.5" Component ?

2. The same for the rear ? Same set up ?

3. Bose amp and sub is a single unit ?

4. Does the Bose amp run any silly Ohm set up that I should be aware of when choosing speakers ?

Ideally I would like to start by replacing the speakers first and see how much of a difference it makes, but I'm guessing the Amp and sub is also going to have to go, which my mean having to change all the wiring ? Which is not something I really want to do. I also don't want to have a sub box sitting in the boot. I use my car daily and love the practicality of it and am not prepared to lose that.

My speaker choice so far is looking something like this.

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/jl-audi ... ker-system

Any input or thoughts would be most welcome :nodder:

Puggie
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Puggie » Mon May 24, 2021 3:28 pm

Fronts are 6.5" in the door and tweeter by the handle. Rears are the same. The rear 'sub' is another 6.5" driver in a big icecream tub type plastic box with an amp on the side.

Mine is all going in the bin frankly. I'll check the impedance of the midbass tonight as I have on on the bench in the garage, I do not believe they are anything daft despite being Bose.

Not sure what is going in mine ultimately but the Bose stuff is not staying. Much will depend on how much space I decide to lose to the subs (I have a JBL W12GTi, but that is going to eat boot space, a pair of more normal sized 10s in the original space the sub and amps were in and the same space on the other side might be more subtle).

Mɐʇʇ
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Mɐʇʇ » Mon May 24, 2021 3:46 pm

Would you consider keeping the Bose sub housing for a tight install, but just changing all the speakers and amps?
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"

srichards
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by srichards » Mon May 24, 2021 4:12 pm

I put Eton drivers in another car to replace the BMW ones. That and a mid range Pioneer head unit was pretty decent. Didn't bother with the Sub as it didn't have much of a boot.

https://www.eton-gmbh.com/en/products/car-hifi/

Mark-RS
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Mark-RS » Mon May 24, 2021 5:07 pm

Puggie wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 3:28 pm
Fronts are 6.5" in the door and tweeter by the handle. Rears are the same. The rear 'sub' is another 6.5" driver in a big icecream tub type plastic box with an amp on the side.

Mine is all going in the bin frankly. I'll check the impedance of the midbass tonight as I have on on the bench in the garage, I do not believe they are anything daft despite being Bose.

Not sure what is going in mine ultimately but the Bose stuff is not staying. Much will depend on how much space I decide to lose to the subs (I have a JBL W12GTi, but that is going to eat boot space, a pair of more normal sized 10s in the original space the sub and amps were in and the same space on the other side might be more subtle).
I don't really want to lose any boot space at all. If I do something I would rather it was hidden out of site like the OEM system. I don't really want earth shattering bass, I'm more after a good quality sound. But I do also like some bass ! :bigblink:
Mɐʇʇ wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 3:46 pm
Would you consider keeping the Bose sub housing for a tight install, but just changing all the speakers and amps?
This is certainly an option to think about, but a 6.5 Sub unit is not going to produce the lows that I am after. Does explain why the Bose system is so punchy though, but has no depth and quality to it.

When mine was in for the Cambelt I drove my Mums 2008 A4 cab with a Symphony system and it's total night and day to my current set up. Nothing over the top, but the quality of it was another level.
srichards wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 4:12 pm
I put Eton drivers in another car to replace the BMW ones. That and a mid range Pioneer head unit was pretty decent. Didn't bother with the Sub as it didn't have much of a boot.

https://www.eton-gmbh.com/en/products/car-hifi/
Honestly never heard of this, but will certainly have a look into them :-)

Puggie
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Puggie » Mon May 24, 2021 10:44 pm

Eton used to be VERY good stuff, it probably still is unless they have been bought out by someone in the far East.

The 6.5" midbass drivers are 2ohm, if you want dimentions I can have a measure up for ya. The driver screws to the plastic door card, not the solid metal work of the door. This is probably a bit of an issue if you demand top drawer choons!!!

I will drag my spare sub/amp unit out at the weekend for a measure up, I suspect they were designed to efficiently go boom in time with the music and little more than that. I reckon you could use the space from the old nav and cd changer units. If you don't mind your car smelling like a fresh canoe for a few weeks, build a fibreglass box in that space and you could probably do a good ported 8" or sealed 10" sub. Make the box first then choose a sub to suit the space you have IMHO. You could do the same where the OE sub was.

If you really want to keep it OE looking, tangband make some pretty decent small subs, dayton are worth a look too if you want to keep costs in check. I will see if I can find anything that may work in the existing box. If you want silly DD are still hard to beat, they do mental 6.5 and 8" subs as do many other brands now sundown, Fi (probably), Image Dynamics sound decent for the money.

Look at something like the helix v8, multi channel class d amp and dsp in one box, really small, sounds decent runs cool.

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Mark-RS
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Mark-RS » Wed May 26, 2021 3:44 pm

2 ohm is not that bad. Should work ok with most 4 ohm speakers without much issue. Any idea if the speakers are proper component speakers ? Or just coax with the tweeter moved to the upper door ? Any crossovers to be seen ?

Puggie
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Puggie » Thu May 27, 2021 1:28 pm

I'll grab the sub and amp on Sunday to check, but the midbass and tweeter both have separate wiring off the door card, so they could be active off the amp.


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Puggie
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Puggie » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:49 pm

So, the amp looks to have wires for:

Power, ground, remote

5 small gauge, front and rear left and right + common ground

4 pairs of chunky speaker wires,

then another pair of wires to the sub driver out of the other end.

The sub driver is a 5-1/4" 1 ohm unit.

Sat next to a standard 2l pop bottle I'd guess 4-6l with a little bolt in port on the back. I'll measure it up properly when I get chance.

I've ordered a 5-1/4" tangband sub and passive radiator to try in there. I think being a 4ohm driver the OE amp will struggle. And the enclosure having the structural rigidity of an icecream tub might be an issue too. I will have a play though and report back.

I assume the crossovers for the drivers in the doors are in the door somewhere rather than on the card.

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Mark-RS
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Mark-RS » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:31 pm

Useful information. Thanks.

At least the wiring appears to be fairly standard stuff, so shouldn't need a rewire if another amp is needed. Unless you want to go for huge power and bone shaking bass.... Which I am not after anymore. Getting old haha.

Puggie
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Puggie » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:41 am

So I did a bit more poking about:

The sub box is about 8.5 litres and the current port (50mm dia x150mm long tunes it to 60hz.
The Tangband sub I ordered should work nicely if the port is changed (40mm dia x 300-500mm long looks reasonable) to tune it down to 30-40hz and just try to match to roll off with the cabin gain of the car. It will have less boom but more rumble. Still not be very loud though.

The Bose amp is based on TDA7383 amplifier chips from ST Electronics. They are rated a 4x30w, I think one is doing the main speakers and the other paralleled up for the 1ohm sub. I've not checked mind, I'm just guessing. The amp has some basic filtering for fronts rears and sub, it all pretty basic stuff though. One of the modern class-d multi channel amps would be in a totally different league if anyone is looking for an upgrade.

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Gregstv
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Gregstv » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:59 am

I read somewhere there are two versions of the Bose amp in the C5. One was a total of 140watts and the other was 200watts.
30 watts RMS per channel in a car is a heap of power if it can be set up right.

srichards
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by srichards » Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:06 pm

Anyone have any idea whether a failing Bose amp leads to a weird buzzing noise around the dashboard/ top door speaker area?

Where are the amps physically? I've got a CD changer in the rear left cubby in the boot.

Puggie
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Re: Speakers Amps etc

Post by Puggie » Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:56 pm

Amp is bolted to the back of the sub box on the opposite side of the boot to the cd changer.


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