Fuel Pumps
Re: Fuel Pumps
Exhaust manifold breaking up? You mean like small bits of metal pushed down to the turbos? I suppose there would be a lot of smoke in the engine bay if there were a leak there, so it's like like peeling from the inside?
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: Fuel Pumps
Something like this:
https://images.app.goo.gl/RahMSPMk33XhmbzE9
It’s quite rare on the RS6. This image is from a B5 S4. Unfortunately not rare on that car.
https://images.app.goo.gl/RahMSPMk33XhmbzE9
It’s quite rare on the RS6. This image is from a B5 S4. Unfortunately not rare on that car.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Fuel Pumps
Wow... And yes, that's what I naively meant by 'peeling from the inside'...
How would I confirm the diagnosis? Would that lead to less exhaust flow on the offended bank?
In both cases this is not good for the wallet. I was already budgeting the turbos but exhaust manifolds on top wasn't expected..
Wasn't there a gentleman on this forum starting a boutique parts business? I remember discussions about exhaust manifolds..
I've also been lurking those for a while : https://tteglobal.com/audi/rs6/c5-4.2-v ... -manifolds
How would I confirm the diagnosis? Would that lead to less exhaust flow on the offended bank?
In both cases this is not good for the wallet. I was already budgeting the turbos but exhaust manifolds on top wasn't expected..
Wasn't there a gentleman on this forum starting a boutique parts business? I remember discussions about exhaust manifolds..
I've also been lurking those for a while : https://tteglobal.com/audi/rs6/c5-4.2-v ... -manifolds
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: Fuel Pumps
Maybe it's not the manifold. It does sound like a turbo has stopped spinning, though. Need to figure out why.
I'd start by putting a borescope down the inlet to see if the compressor wheel gives any clues. Maybe a clot dislodged from somewhere and is stopping it turning. Very unlikely but easy to do to eliminate. I wonder if you can get something down there to see if the wheel spins freely.
You said you already checked the waste gate operation, right? How did you do that? Did they operate smoothly? Did they close again properly?
No misfires or lumpy idle?
Hard to check for the manifold damage without looking inside it. If you get the turbos off you can stick a borescope up there and have a look around.
I'd start by putting a borescope down the inlet to see if the compressor wheel gives any clues. Maybe a clot dislodged from somewhere and is stopping it turning. Very unlikely but easy to do to eliminate. I wonder if you can get something down there to see if the wheel spins freely.
You said you already checked the waste gate operation, right? How did you do that? Did they operate smoothly? Did they close again properly?
No misfires or lumpy idle?
Hard to check for the manifold damage without looking inside it. If you get the turbos off you can stick a borescope up there and have a look around.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Fuel Pumps
Many thanks again for a detailed check list!
In the same order :
1/ yes I suppose it should be easy to see if something obvious blocks the turbos upstream on the cold side, will do asap
2/ Wastegate operation : using the borescope and by sending pressure (up to 1.5 bar) I was able to directly see the actuators moving freely both ways. I didn't notice any crack on the external surface of the turbos near the wastegate neither. I suppose they are supposed to be fully opened when engine is idling (=barely no turbo boost) but does that correspond to full pressure or no pressure applied from the N75?
3/ No misfires at all (never had one) and idle is very decent
In the same order :
1/ yes I suppose it should be easy to see if something obvious blocks the turbos upstream on the cold side, will do asap
2/ Wastegate operation : using the borescope and by sending pressure (up to 1.5 bar) I was able to directly see the actuators moving freely both ways. I didn't notice any crack on the external surface of the turbos near the wastegate neither. I suppose they are supposed to be fully opened when engine is idling (=barely no turbo boost) but does that correspond to full pressure or no pressure applied from the N75?
3/ No misfires at all (never had one) and idle is very decent
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: Fuel Pumps
When no boost is required, the N75 directs the pressure to the waste gate actuator to open it. I don't know if at idle there is enough exhaust gas flow to pressurise the inlet air enough to open the waste gate. As soon as the turbo spins up a bit more the pressure will open the waste gate.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Fuel Pumps
Glad too see that your finally getting too the bottom of this issue , hopfully it is a simple as a turbo has crapped itself and theres nothing to sinister lurking behind the issue .
Oh and it's me that's setting up in parts development , it's a long old road but I think the end is in site and I'll be able too help people out soon .
Oh and it's me that's setting up in parts development , it's a long old road but I think the end is in site and I'll be able too help people out soon .
Cheers Al
04 c5 rs6 , Ebony Black, Bare shell repaint , Milltek's, PSS9's,Hotchkis Arb's,Gutted precats, hybrid turbos, Bosch 044 ,And an annoying EML light
04 c5 rs6 , Ebony Black, Bare shell repaint , Milltek's, PSS9's,Hotchkis Arb's,Gutted precats, hybrid turbos, Bosch 044 ,And an annoying EML light
Re: Fuel Pumps
Hey Ajc,
Thank you for the encouragements! I'm not sure an engine out job on our beasts is good news but at least yeah, with the unvaluable and persevering help from Shoppinit we're getting there
Also it will allow me to double check every bit on the engine.
Knowing the car is almost 170k kms, I intend to change my turbos anyways, even if they are 'just' clogged, so I'm interested in all turbos experiences on the BCY. So far I've narrowed it down to 3 contenders :
Loba http://www.strperformance.com/kit-turbo ... turbo.html
TTE http://www.strperformance.com/kit-turbo ... turbo.html
Alfi https://alfi-turbo.com/turbo-hybrid-aud ... on-stage_3
All 3 of them are based on the KKK BorgWarner K04 turbos (like the oems) but they differ on the specialized job they do on the inner parts. The first 2 contenders are quite renowned in the RS6 world but Alfi is a serious turbo provider in France, admittedly for mainstream cars and vans, but they have a specialized team for such jobs. As you can see on the link above they propose a 3 stages approach for optimizing the turbo performance, but even on stage 3 the price is quite decent, like 1000€ less than the other 2. ATM I'm inclined to go with them both on reputation and price, but I'm opened to all options, including exhaust manifolds.
Thank you for the encouragements! I'm not sure an engine out job on our beasts is good news but at least yeah, with the unvaluable and persevering help from Shoppinit we're getting there
Also it will allow me to double check every bit on the engine.Knowing the car is almost 170k kms, I intend to change my turbos anyways, even if they are 'just' clogged, so I'm interested in all turbos experiences on the BCY. So far I've narrowed it down to 3 contenders :
Loba http://www.strperformance.com/kit-turbo ... turbo.html
TTE http://www.strperformance.com/kit-turbo ... turbo.html
Alfi https://alfi-turbo.com/turbo-hybrid-aud ... on-stage_3
All 3 of them are based on the KKK BorgWarner K04 turbos (like the oems) but they differ on the specialized job they do on the inner parts. The first 2 contenders are quite renowned in the RS6 world but Alfi is a serious turbo provider in France, admittedly for mainstream cars and vans, but they have a specialized team for such jobs. As you can see on the link above they propose a 3 stages approach for optimizing the turbo performance, but even on stage 3 the price is quite decent, like 1000€ less than the other 2. ATM I'm inclined to go with them both on reputation and price, but I'm opened to all options, including exhaust manifolds.
Last edited by Classik on Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: Fuel Pumps
What's the 425€ on the Alfi site?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Fuel Pumps
This is the base genuine KKK turbo. You then have the option for stages 2 or 3 upgrades with related descriptions. Interesting innit? These were recommended by a fellow RS6 owner on a French forum. A pair of stage 3 costs like 2400€ incl. Vat
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: Fuel Pumps
Yeah, I would also probably risk the Alfi turbo. I'd probably just get the stage I though. No point going nuts unless you are going to significantly rework all the hotsides. bam_bam spent a lot of time and money on the hotsides to get 600+ hp. Not sure it's worth it.
Plus you are also increasing the risk of having serious issues with insurance if you change stuff that's visible and obviously not OEM in the motor like manifolds.
Plus you are also increasing the risk of having serious issues with insurance if you change stuff that's visible and obviously not OEM in the motor like manifolds.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Fuel Pumps
Interesting feedback, Shopp. Actually my goal is definitely not to reach crazy performance specs, but to improve engine response & easiness (if that means something) and reduce lags (turbos). In this regard, would you say the bigger ones are not worth it? Even regarding the turbo lags for which the upgraded versions should be an improvement compared to the base version? Mind to expand your point about dealing with the hot side of the turbos?
As far as the manifolds are concerned, two points: the upgraded version is more expensive compared to the stock ones but not to a crazy extend, and as far as the look is concerned my intention was to wrap them in heat protection bands like this : https://www.ebay.com/itm/3x-50-Black-Fi ... SwU1NdZI5o, so certainly less flashy than the naked metal !
As far as the manifolds are concerned, two points: the upgraded version is more expensive compared to the stock ones but not to a crazy extend, and as far as the look is concerned my intention was to wrap them in heat protection bands like this : https://www.ebay.com/itm/3x-50-Black-Fi ... SwU1NdZI5o, so certainly less flashy than the naked metal !
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: Fuel Pumps
I'm not really into modding so I only have a passing knowledge, but I remember bam_bam saying that most of the restrictions to big power were on the hotside. He had some custom inconel jobs made and a ridiculous exhaust system (possibly more to make a loud noise than for performance gains). Don't know about cats. You can search for posts about Darth and exhaust, maybe. Haven't seen bam on here for a while since he got rid of the mental manual.
I seem to remember you already have sports cats. Did you get rid of the pre-cats, too?
There's not much turbo lag on the RS6. Looks like they are saying the modified turbos reduce lag (the loba ones at least). The standard turbos seems to reach max boost at about 3700 rpm. Engine red lines at what, 6000? Can't remember. Intuitively I can't see lag being improved significantly but every bit helps.
Max pressure on the standard turbos is about 1.2bar above atmospheric IIRC. Maybe check what Alfi and the others are saying about the pressure increase possible with their set-ups.
You'll need a decent map, too. Did you put new injectors on in the end?
I think the wrapping looks less OEM, not more. Still, they are barely visible in the RS6 anyway. I guess the idea of the wrapping is to insulate the manifolds, keep the heat higher and gas flow faster. Would be interesting to compare before / after EGTs.
I seem to remember you already have sports cats. Did you get rid of the pre-cats, too?
There's not much turbo lag on the RS6. Looks like they are saying the modified turbos reduce lag (the loba ones at least). The standard turbos seems to reach max boost at about 3700 rpm. Engine red lines at what, 6000? Can't remember. Intuitively I can't see lag being improved significantly but every bit helps.
Max pressure on the standard turbos is about 1.2bar above atmospheric IIRC. Maybe check what Alfi and the others are saying about the pressure increase possible with their set-ups.
You'll need a decent map, too. Did you put new injectors on in the end?
I think the wrapping looks less OEM, not more. Still, they are barely visible in the RS6 anyway. I guess the idea of the wrapping is to insulate the manifolds, keep the heat higher and gas flow faster. Would be interesting to compare before / after EGTs.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Fuel Pumps
ATM I have custom downpipes with high flow 200 cells cat (no pre-cat) and Miltek exhaust, so I'd say that part is covered. Fair enough regarding turbos, and it's also true that the engine capacity makes most of the job on our cars so less constraints on turbos compared to smaller engines.
MAP is done for e85 and standard fuel; the mapper had to adapt it though to take into account the broken turbo or whatever that could be (lost 150 HP in the process
) and this will be amended as soon as I get the new turbos/manifolds of course.
New injectors and upgraded fuel pumps (the very subject of this 20 pages long thread
) will be done just after turbo/manifolds. Still need to have those PSS9 installed by the way
MAP is done for e85 and standard fuel; the mapper had to adapt it though to take into account the broken turbo or whatever that could be (lost 150 HP in the process
) and this will be amended as soon as I get the new turbos/manifolds of course.New injectors and upgraded fuel pumps (the very subject of this 20 pages long thread
) will be done just after turbo/manifolds. Still need to have those PSS9 installed by the way RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap
Re: Fuel Pumps
Out of interest, who does your mapping? KSF?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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