It’s 2018 now and that’s 15 years or so of everybody getting to know this car, quite a few years then so as a couple of examples has anyone found out that they didn’t actually need to change the cambelt just because it’s 4 years old and only done 5,000 miles but found to still be in excellent condition, I’d love to know and it would help to settle a mileage vs years argument I’ve had with someone for a long time plus I’d also like know if they continued to have it changed spending a needless £1k plus purely out of fear.
Why is it also critical to potential buyers that the gearbox has to have been ‘rebuilt’ I thought you only fix things if they’re broken, if it’s been looked after and not had its bollocks thrashed on a daily basis even if it’s only ever had frequent servicing then surely this is the more desirable example.
For current owners the fear factor is clearly still out there and whatever was ‘recommended’ then, which is fine when new and unknown, is still being followed now even if there’s doubt, 15 years is a long time therefore a lot more must have been learnt about this model and the specialists out there must be able to re-write the rule book by now which may give future buyers a different outlook on things when doing research and not put them off as much.
Anything learnt in 15 years?
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
You don't find out that you don't need to change the cambelt. You only find out that you should have changed the cambelt but didn't and it's not a pleasant thing to learn. The belts themselves are the same as pretty much any other belt driven cam and last as long / well. The difference is in the consequences of a failure. If it's a Fiesta and the belt lets go then you can pick up another engine for a couple of hundred quid. Different story with the RS6.
I am also not sure why boxes need to have been rebuilt if there's nothing wrong with them. I suspect potential buyers feel reassured by the idea of it, but without really understanding why. There's no easy way of knowing what kind of life the box has had when you're buying.
The fear factor will only increase as the price drops. The cost of repairs grows as a proportion of the value of the car and, frequently, the available funds of the buyer. People buying an 8k car aren't necessarily those that would drop 5k on repairing a box without blinking an eye.
Finally, no specialist is really interested in developing new bits or techniques for it. There have been 2 newers versions released since the C5. Getting rarer and rarer every day, the RS6 has entered that weird twilight phase where it's becoming either a collector's / enthusiast's car... or a banger about to disappear into breaker heaven.
I am also not sure why boxes need to have been rebuilt if there's nothing wrong with them. I suspect potential buyers feel reassured by the idea of it, but without really understanding why. There's no easy way of knowing what kind of life the box has had when you're buying.
The fear factor will only increase as the price drops. The cost of repairs grows as a proportion of the value of the car and, frequently, the available funds of the buyer. People buying an 8k car aren't necessarily those that would drop 5k on repairing a box without blinking an eye.
Finally, no specialist is really interested in developing new bits or techniques for it. There have been 2 newers versions released since the C5. Getting rarer and rarer every day, the RS6 has entered that weird twilight phase where it's becoming either a collector's / enthusiast's car... or a banger about to disappear into breaker heaven.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
And which one do you reckon it'll become?
I had a Renault 25 V6 Turbo as the donor vehicle for my Ultima. In their day (1986ish), they were pretty mega, but saw one pop up on ebay once a couple of years back. Looked fairly tidy, but went for virtually nothing.....
I had a Renault 25 V6 Turbo as the donor vehicle for my Ultima. In their day (1986ish), they were pretty mega, but saw one pop up on ebay once a couple of years back. Looked fairly tidy, but went for virtually nothing.....
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
Still plenty of 1986 Renaults on the road in France. Admittedly, not many R25 Turbos. The initial price, desirability and availability of the car is a big factor in determining its classic value, IMO. That's why cheap common cars like the Morris Minor are still fairly low value, despite being really old now. Crap then, crap now.
I think the RS6 is closer to the RS2 end of the scale. The Ur RS4 is well on the way to being a classic. I think the RS6 will follow and we're already seeing prices rise on good examples.
We'll find out in 10 years if I was right or whether I have a worthless biturbo hunk of steel rotting in my garage, surrounded by bits of Tesla.
My RR classic appears to be going up in value, too. Happy days.
I wonder how much my Golf 2 is worth now.
I think the RS6 is closer to the RS2 end of the scale. The Ur RS4 is well on the way to being a classic. I think the RS6 will follow and we're already seeing prices rise on good examples.
We'll find out in 10 years if I was right or whether I have a worthless biturbo hunk of steel rotting in my garage, surrounded by bits of Tesla.
My RR classic appears to be going up in value, too. Happy days.
I wonder how much my Golf 2 is worth now.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
One thing I've found is that 182hp (R25 V6 Turbo) isn't enough, no matter how light the car.
Whereas 500hp is decent - so it'll always have desirability just through being somewhat mental.
Whereas 500hp is decent - so it'll always have desirability just through being somewhat mental.
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
When I was looking I wouldn’t entertain any without a recent gearbox rebuild, too many stories of 5k repair bills why would you not be concerned about one on 100k plus with original box.
On my Evo I made 7k in 3 years of ownership, I didn’t buy the RS6 for similar profits as I can’t see them ever going for silly RS2 money, they just don’t have the following, most car enthusiasts don’t even appreciate how special it is.
On my Evo I made 7k in 3 years of ownership, I didn’t buy the RS6 for similar profits as I can’t see them ever going for silly RS2 money, they just don’t have the following, most car enthusiasts don’t even appreciate how special it is.
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
Exactly my point, nobody's going to be happy it breaking in the first place to even be rebuilt, maybe there’s still concern as there’s plenty of posts on here with people who’s had them done only to go again in less than a few thousand miles, now that would be a real bummer, depending on where it was done a lottery either way then I guess
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
Look at my latest thread, the irony Isn’t lost on meamgtr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:44 pmExactly my point, nobody's going to be happy it breaking in the first place to even be rebuilt, maybe there’s still concern as there’s plenty of posts on here with people who’s had them done only to go again in less than a few thousand miles, now that would be a real bummer, depending on where it was done a lottery either way then I guess
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
Ben_r1 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:53 pmWhen I was looking I wouldn’t entertain any without a recent gearbox rebuild, too many stories of 5k repair bills why would you not be concerned about one on 100k plus with original box.
On my Evo I made 7k in 3 years of ownership, I didn’t buy the RS6 for similar profits as I can’t see them ever going for silly RS2 money, they just don’t have the following, most car enthusiasts don’t even appreciate how special it is.
I don’t think the RS2 had a huge following either. They seem to just hit a stage when people class them as classics. The B5 RS4 is no different. You could pick up a standard high miler for 8k at one point and Jimbo on the Audisrs forum was breaking them at a rate of knots. Now even high mile examples are being put up for 20k
When specialist traders (4 star classics etc) get their hands on them and wind Up the prices then the private market follows suit..
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
Here’s my point
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3162723871
Golf mk2 G60 Edition 1
These used to be 3/5k tops... now a specialist has got their hands on it, suprise suprise it’s 16k... I bet they paid under 8k for it too...
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3162723871
Golf mk2 G60 Edition 1
These used to be 3/5k tops... now a specialist has got their hands on it, suprise suprise it’s 16k... I bet they paid under 8k for it too...
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
I didn't even know there *was* a Golf 2 G60. 
Great cars, though. I've driven over 150000 miles in my Golf 2 TDi over the years. I should probably fix it up. Breaks my heart when I see it rusting away.
Great cars, though. I've driven over 150000 miles in my Golf 2 TDi over the years. I should probably fix it up. Breaks my heart when I see it rusting away.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
You have to look at the long term with these cars now. Especially with the current crop of hybrid and soon all electric cars taking over. These kinds of cars are only gonna go up in value. But then again what with talks about banning all petrol cars from roads you have to wonder what will happen to petrol cars. More and more people are using cars as investments now. Just look at cosworths, E30 M3 and integrales (sp) I remember when they were in the teens now £50,000+!!
Also the editon one golfs were lhd only? I wonder what the Rallyes app e worth now. I know the R32 are doing very well.
Also the editon one golfs were lhd only? I wonder what the Rallyes app e worth now. I know the R32 are doing very well.
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
One big problem with modern (future) classics is the complexity of the electronics and the opaque nature of their architecture and software. To illustrate, the other day I started to panic because my RR classic developed an ECU fault. They are rarer than a very rare thing so I assumed I would have to buy a an aftermarket ECU and sensors. Then I opened it and realised there were no discrete electronics in it all, only big fat analogue caps, resistors and trannies. If I wanted to, I could rebuild it from scratch with components that are worth pennies. The components were so big I could probably solder them with boxing gloves on.
If, in 10 years, the TCU fails on my RS6, I suspect that I will be properly screwed unless I have a spare. What happens then? Can't replace it with other parts that do the same job. You could say the same for a quite a number of vital components on the car. I'm not sure how this affects / will affect the potential value of them.
You can always machine mechanical bits, but the computer based stuff... more tricky. Especially if you are trying to keep the car as original as possible.
If, in 10 years, the TCU fails on my RS6, I suspect that I will be properly screwed unless I have a spare. What happens then? Can't replace it with other parts that do the same job. You could say the same for a quite a number of vital components on the car. I'm not sure how this affects / will affect the potential value of them.
You can always machine mechanical bits, but the computer based stuff... more tricky. Especially if you are trying to keep the car as original as possible.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
It’s not just the electronics but plastic clips that hold things in place especially interior parts. But with the availability of 3D printers and such maybe it’s not far fetched to make your own. I agree with you on ecu/tcu’s. However it isn’t just RS6s but a whole host of cars of that generation. I’m sure technologies will advancr which may open up a new market of car part restorations.
Also I’m on the replace your cambelt no matter on time or mileage.
Also I’m on the replace your cambelt no matter on time or mileage.
Re: Anything learnt in 15 years?
could kick myself the cars i've sold over the years
. Rouse Sport 304R Sapphire Cosworth 57,000 miles Genuine car in White
. Original Nova GTE F reg in black 52,000 miles full group B spec built engine and quaife gearbox
. Astra GTE 16v Champion Edition totally original
plus many many others Cossies, RS turbo's, nova etc
but you don't think about it at the time you just sell up and move on
thankfully managed to find a B5 RS4 before the prices go silly
I'd love a Sprint Blue C5 RS6 plus (but i think that ship might have sailed now) as i think Audi's of that era just where something special, wide bodied, old school looks, better build quality, proper head turners, and none of this artificial sounding crap
don't get me wrong i had a RS3 8v for 18 months, awesome car ballistic performance but lacked the character u get from the the older turbo charged cars
. Rouse Sport 304R Sapphire Cosworth 57,000 miles Genuine car in White
. Original Nova GTE F reg in black 52,000 miles full group B spec built engine and quaife gearbox
. Astra GTE 16v Champion Edition totally original
plus many many others Cossies, RS turbo's, nova etc
but you don't think about it at the time you just sell up and move on
thankfully managed to find a B5 RS4 before the prices go silly
I'd love a Sprint Blue C5 RS6 plus (but i think that ship might have sailed now) as i think Audi's of that era just where something special, wide bodied, old school looks, better build quality, proper head turners, and none of this artificial sounding crap
don't get me wrong i had a RS3 8v for 18 months, awesome car ballistic performance but lacked the character u get from the the older turbo charged cars
#VAGDoctor