Fuel Pumps

4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 450 bhp
4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 480 bhp (plus)
Classik
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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Classik » Sun May 19, 2019 6:58 pm

Very detailed reply with useful links & suggestions with a pinch of delicate English humour, many thanks!! (I particularly liked the baby oil thing.. lol)

Meanwhile I've done quite a few tests yesterday and I believe I have some interesting information to share :

- Test with an external coolant sensor. Results are clear : the ecu is not to blame as the discrepancies appear even if the measured temperature is far below the 85° point. I had to stop the engine quite quickly as it was getting vey hot without the proper temp information.. :mrgreen:
- The ticking was finally not coming from the N249, but from the nearby injectors. :oops: Apologies for pointing to a dead-end, I should have listened more carefully.
- In the same newbie-type-of-stupid-mistake spirit, I opened the black container underneath the N80 and it's definitely not a charcoal canister box but the secondary air pump whose cover was simply displaced. :oops: :oops: Anyway I took the time to uninstall it and test it : I got a very strong blow of fresh air telling me it's working nicely.

Now, this is were things are getting really interesting: I unmounted those large hoses connecting both PCV valves, the long one at the very top front of the engine (part 4 on the pic above ^^) and the small ones leading to the PCVs (parts 6 & 18). All of them were quite dirty (kind of thick burnt oil paste) that I quickly cleaned with some brake spray. Good news is that it had a good effect on the MAF discrepancies, not to the point of solving it but it slightly reduced the difference between L&R banks readings and most of all the car already felt quicker and less congestioned (for lack of a better word). Also I tried to let the engine run idle whilst hose #4 was unmounted and there was some smoke coming out the T-connector on the left (part #1).

Taking into account I haven't noticed any oil consumption, my uneducated guess is that there must be some serious dirt somewhere down below. Where are those pipes (#12 & 14) going?

Anyway, looks like I'm getting closer to the solution, and something tells me I'll have to unmount the manifold to see what's going on underneath. Of course the chase for air leaks is still on but I also expect to find some clogged pipes&hoses that need some attention.
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap

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Shoppinit
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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Shoppinit » Sun May 19, 2019 8:08 pm

Which pic are you referring to?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

Classik
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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Classik » Sun May 19, 2019 8:23 pm

Sorry I wasn't clear : [edited]

Image
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap

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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Shoppinit » Sun May 19, 2019 10:28 pm

It’s sucking blow-by from both rocker covers (tubes 7 & 8) and then depending on whether the system is under positive or negative pressure sending it to either upstream of the compressor or into the inlet manifold respectively.

The valves (24) determine this routing depending on pressure. So if they’re full of crud then they might not be closing / opening properly.

Is your oil filler cap sealing correctly?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

Classik
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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Classik » Sun May 19, 2019 10:45 pm

Shoppinit wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:28 pm
It’s sucking blow-by from both rocker covers (tubes 7 & 8) and then depending on whether the system is under positive or negative pressure sending it to either upstream of the compressor or into the inlet manifold respectively.

The valves (24) determine this routing depending on pressure. So if they’re full of crud then they might not be closing / opening properly.
Thanks for the explanation!
Shoppinit wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:28 pm
Is your oil filler cap sealing correctly?
Well it doesn't feel like a very tight fit. Shall I consider changing it for an R8 upgrade? ;)
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap

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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Shoppinit » Mon May 20, 2019 7:37 am

Shoppinit wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:28 pm
It’s sucking blow-by from both rocker covers (tubes 7 & 8)
...and the crankcase, obvs.

You could get an R8 oil cap. I haven't bothered because it's barely visible under the bonnet.

I think you're getting close to resolving the problem. You won't know what to do with yourself when you've fixed it, but you'll know a lot about the plumbing of the RS6!
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

Classik
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Location: Paris

Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Classik » Mon May 20, 2019 7:48 am

Shoppinit wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:37 am
Shoppinit wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:28 pm
It’s sucking blow-by from both rocker covers (tubes 7 & 8)
...and the crankcase, obvs.

You could get an R8 oil cap. I haven't bothered because it's barely visible under the bonnet.

I think you're getting close to resolving the problem. You won't know what to do with yourself when you've fixed it, but you'll know a lot about the plumbing of the RS6!
Yes, sounds like we're close, thanks to your unfailing help! Of course I'll organise all the cleaning and report. As far as knowing what to with myself do once it's fixed, lol. Hopefully I still have a life outside my passion for the car, so I suppose I'll survive the vaccum.. ;)
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap

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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Classik » Mon May 20, 2019 7:50 am

Oh, and would you have any suggestion for sourcing those hoses (4, 6, 7, 8)?
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap

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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Shoppinit » Mon May 20, 2019 8:29 am

I think you'll struggle to get those pipes anywhere but the dealer. It's always worth looking on ebay.de for the part number to see if any dealers are selling them cheaper. There's also https://www.online-teile.com/audi-ersatzteile which is useful for comparing prices.

None of those hoses is expensive. Neither do they look particularly formed. Maybe you can get away with some standard 3cm hose by the meter from a local car parts supplier. That's even assuming any need replacing. Unless they're damaged or perished, you could just clean them out with brake cleaner.

I think I'd definitely change both valves (24). They're about 40 euros each which is a rip-off. The 1.8T valves are *probably* the same, but I can't confirm that. You can find those for about £10 each.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

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Shoppinit
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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Shoppinit » Mon May 20, 2019 8:42 am

For example:

https://www.piecesauto24.com/oen/034129101

I can't think why they would be different, but I've been wrong before.

/Look to see if there's a Hitachi or Bosch number on your valves.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

Classik
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Location: Paris

Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Classik » Mon May 20, 2019 9:10 am

Only one hose is cracked (part 10), but the other seem to slowly degrade at the connecting points so I'd be happy to change them all. I suppose 2 meters will cover more than I need, but I need to find a supplier which provides the same external/internal diameters.

As far as the PCV are concerned, here's a pic of mine. I can't see any reference to Bosch or Hitachi. Maybe to be safe I'll accept to swallow the pill and buy those 40€ valves...

Image
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap

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Shoppinit
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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Shoppinit » Mon May 20, 2019 9:18 am

You could change all the hoses and valves for about 200 EUR. Might be the path of least resistance.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

Classik
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Location: Paris

Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Classik » Mon May 20, 2019 8:37 pm

Sure, thanks for the suggestion!

Just thinking out loud: even if I clean/change those hoses there's a chance the dirt could come back the same way if I don't find the source of the problem. I understand broken PCVs (ordered on online-teile as we speak ;)), ageing oil cap, faulty jet pump & non-return valves already discussed above could well be the reason, but I also wonder if other suspects also need to be considered. What about the charcoal container? https://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+rs6+r ... -201090/#1. Is that easy to access and check? Mind showing where it is located ?
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap

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Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Shoppinit » Mon May 20, 2019 8:52 pm

The PCV system’s nature is to get gunked up after a while. The blow-by congeals and eventually blocks stuff up. It takes quite a long time.

Carbon canister is in the wing behind the arch liner. Just follow the N80 pipes. :)

I think the non-return valves are good candidates. Suction jet, possibly. None of it is particularly expensive but some of it is a pain to get to.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

Classik
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Posts: 702
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:13 pm
Location: Paris

Re: Fuel Pumps

Post by Classik » Mon May 20, 2019 9:07 pm

Shoppinit wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 8:52 pm
The PCV system’s nature is to get gunked up after a while. The blow-by congeals and eventually blocks stuff up. It takes quite a long time.

Carbon canister is in the wing behind the arch liner. Just follow the N80 pipes. :)

I think the non-return valves are good candidates. Suction jet, possibly. None of it is particularly expensive but some of it is a pain to get to.
:thumbs:
RS6 C5 Avant 2003 Daytona Grey
Loba 650 turbos - Wagner IC - 200 cells cats - Milltek cat-back - Hotchkis bars - Bilstein B16 - MTM Wheels - oem coolant cap

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