Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 450 bhp
4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 480 bhp (plus)
ZamboRS6
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Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by ZamboRS6 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:25 pm

Hello all,

I have had my RS6 C5 (Mugello Blue) for around 2.5 years. Love it.! The missus not so and was too scared to drive it, maybe not a bad thing but the kids (4 & 6).. well, the squeals of delight, as we would accelerate from inertia to warp speed, while firmly pressed back in their Recaro (of course) kiddie seats.. The joy that brings is awesome.

Apart from the electrics within the steering wheel, that went haywire after going down a medieval cobbled street in northern Poland, Brutus was very well behaved.

Never missed a beat and never had a problem. Used it as a daily drive. Polish roads are generally pretty sh*te, so I was the one swerving all over the road avoiding the pot holes and the damn manhole covers. Why Polish road builders seem to think it is a cracking idea to have sunken manholes, often in line with a cars wheels, is beyond me!

OK, so the RS6 makes a Saturn 5 rocket look like a teetotaller but you don't have these monsters if you start whinging about fuel.

I have had to move to Malta and, of course, it was time for a total re-build a few weeks back now.

I left Brutus in the capable hands of some Audi-freak performance specialists in Krakow, who are half-way through weaving their magic.

I have asked them to do what is necessary to make it as perfect as possible but being performance specialists and Audi lovers, they want to do some "extra" bits.

So what is happening..?

Engine out - Being taken apart and fully inspected - Rings, sparks and gaskets all being replaced
Gear box has gone off for a re-build/over haul
Loose front joints - Not entirely sure what this means but will be fixed
New starter motor
All filters will be replaced
New brakes/pads - Zimmerman/Ferodo? I am not planning on racing it at the Nurenburg ring..
Turbos - 3 years old and still under warranty (well were until they removed them) and could simply be refurbed but they want to stick hybrids on. Good idea?
New Cam/timing chains/belts
Suspension. In good condition but might swap for new coils. Any suggestions?
New Wagner intercoolers - Arrived... sweet.
Exhaust - Already have Milltek Back Cats - Cats need replacing. They are planning on swapping out the old cats for (somebrand - will find out) racing cats with downpipes. Any suggestions there would be great. The Wagners are crazy expensive..
No rust on car underneath (always been garaged for it's entire life) but a tiniest patch of bubbles at the rear part of the left roof rack sill. I have seen this before on other RS6s. Must be a common issue? I will ensure that is all sorted.
Every hose, pipe, mounts etc being replaced. Every part cleaned and gleamed.
After all this, they will super tune and re-map it - Suggestions on a sensible output without going mad? Was thinking on maxing it to around 515bhp.

Is there anything else anyone would suggest getting done, since it obviously a good time to do it, I would be very grateful. Will post pics etc as things progress but can't figure out how to add an image without linking it to a URL.

Thanks guys. Am looking forward to Brutus being back, roaring and in pristine condition.

Zambo

PS: Quote for all of the above... wait for it... €5650.

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Mɐʇʇ » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:51 pm

What is it with people taking engines apart needlessly. Especially modern motors, the tiniest spec of dirt can lunch it. Rings on used bores are nightmare to get to bed back in.
I've seen a lot of people dismantle & "inspect" motors. Almost without fail, they're never quite so good when they go back together. They "seem" good, but they never last as long or quite produce the power again - the OEM or Cosworth, in this case, knows what they're doing and it's beyond most garages.

If it checks out on compression & oil pressure, maybe replace the cam adjuster followers if they're worn and do all the normal service stuff - leave the rest of the motor well alone.

Just IMVHO. ;)
ZamboRS6 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:25 pm
Being taken apart and fully inspected - Rings, sparks and gaskets all being replaced
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"

ZamboRS6
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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by ZamboRS6 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:32 am

Thanks MattV8

Could be right.

The Polish are quite masterful when it comes to cars in general and these guys are not your average mechanics. All have to have a minimum of a mechanical engineering degree to just start as an "apprentice", with my point man being a PHD in Aeronautical Engineering. They have a profound passion for performance engines and virtually working for free because they love it so much. Hence the quote. Try beating that in the UK or US.

Of course, they ran it on their rig several times and could see their was a loss in power.

We'll see but I am pretty confident they know what they are doing ;-)

Thanks,

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Steveo » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:42 am

At 515bhpthat is nothing to get excited about. An engine with stock parts will easily achieve more than that with just a stage 1 remap from MRC. With hybrid turbos and race cats you would get 560+ on an MRC stage 2 map. But if the polish guys get that amount of bhp and don't restrict the torque, then your gearbox WILL go bang!

Use the search facility on here and read through previous posts and you will see that all your questions have been answered several times.
RS6 C5, MTM

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Shoppinit
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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Shoppinit » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:46 am

The bubbling roof channels is very common unfortunately. Painting error at the factory no doubt.

Hybrid turbos and decat / sports cats should give to plenty of power. Don't worry about the box, just be a bit sympathetic with it and get it rebuilt in cheap as chips Poland again if it goes bang. Who's this specialist? All useful information. :)

Also, rule 1.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by ZamboRS6 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:06 am

Steveo wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:42 am
At 515bhpthat is nothing to get excited about. An engine with stock parts will easily achieve more than that with just a stage 1 remap from MRC. With hybrid turbos and race cats you would get 560+ on an MRC stage 2 map. But if the polish guys get that amount of bhp and don't restrict the torque, then your gearbox WILL go bang!

Use the search facility on here and read through previous posts and you will see that all your questions have been answered several times.
Hi Steveo,

Thanks for that and will keep searching through the posts. I keep getting distracted, since there is so much interesting info.

These cars are exciting, even at their standard output, and agree regarding going overboard and not restricting the torque. The "mechanics" am sure will behave themselves.

I might not go with hybrids tbh and simply want a sensible balance, thus reducing the risk of something going bang.

I am not a boy racer and have never thrashed old Brutus, i know these cars blow most of the road with minimal effort and plan to bring the car to Malta. Garage (fixing stuff that go wrong) costs in Malta are ridiculously expensive and once here, I will actually hardly use it. Maltese roads are worse that Poland and car is LHD anyway. It will be stored and (maybe) on display at the Malta Classic Car Collection (will be the only RS6 C5 on the island) and I will use it on an odd weekend and for road trips to Sicily and Italy/Croatia. This summer, plan is to do a Targa Florio roadtrip.

I want to keep it, after this re-build, in as pristine condition as possible, and have it for many years to come.

BTW: Malta has some of the most amazing classic cars hidden away in dusty garages. I found a Renault 5 GT Turbo (Phase 2) in absolute mint/showroom condition, with 1835 miles on the clock, the other day. Assuming I can afford it, I am going to start amassing as many super low mileage classics as possible. There are so many gems here, it is mind blowing.

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by ZamboRS6 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:33 am

Shoppinit wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:46 am
The bubbling roof channels is very common unfortunately. Painting error at the factory no doubt.

Hybrid turbos and decat / sports cats should give to plenty of power. Don't worry about the box, just be a bit sympathetic with it and get it rebuilt in cheap as chips Poland again if it goes bang. Who's this specialist? All useful information. :)

Also, rule 1.
Hi Shoppinit,

Thanks for the response. I have read through a lot of your stuff and are a font of amazing knowledge.

Unfortunately, the car will be leaving Poland but tbh, is still probably cheaper to ship it back there if something horrendous goes wrong.

Of course, the more international people know about them, the higher the chances the costs will escalate.

However, check their website out. Is all in Polish but, if using Chrome, use the translate feature. Typical of a lot of Polish companies. No one knows about them because they can never be arsed to go international.

Of course, they have not finished the rebuild, so can't confirm anything yet but another RS6 C5 owner I know always used them. They were recommended actually by another Polish friend who is a Subaru junkie. When I brought the RS6 in, all their eyes lit up. You can tell how insanely passionate they are. I actually said to them to wait a couple of months before they should start but were so excited, they came in the following day (Sunday, their day off) and got started anyway. We are waiting for the gearbox to come back now.

http://www.chiptuningkrakow.autoserwis.co/

Thanks, Zambo.

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Ben_r1 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:35 pm

I have to agree about the unnecessary engine dismantling, it’s also a very common issue in the Evo world I’ve come from.
OE original engines seemed to make great power and were very robust/reliable but as soon as people start opening them up even for OE rebuilds they’re never the same again and lose a lot of reliability.

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Covkiller » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:22 am

What is so special about rebuilding an engine, they are not an un-reversible build and easy for an experienced specialist. Many punters with Porsches and Ferraris have their engines rebuilt, so what is so unique about Audi. I've already identified a specialist in Cov who can rebuild my RS4 heads and bottom engine to a better standard than factory. No fear hear. Go for it Zambo.

Come on Zambo rule No1
RS4 B7, Mugello Blue, K&W V3 & HR ARBs, set up by Centre Gravity, Milltek Valved Non Res & cat bypass pipes, BMC air filter, braided hoses, DOT 5.1, Terraclean, MRC Full Carbon Clean, MRC remap 448PS 477NM, 20" S7 alloys with 4mm spacers & Hawke spigots 66.6 > 57.1, AP Racing front discs. Sold Sept 2019. Now rocking an F80 M3

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Shoppinit » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:31 am

Covkiller wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:22 am
I've already identified a specialist in Cov who can rebuild my RS4 heads and bottom engine to a better standard than factory.
Who's that?
Covkiller wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:22 am
Come on Zambo rule No1
+1
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Mɐʇʇ » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:51 am

It's the whole "strip and inspect" mentality on a healthy engine.

You're of course correct, an engine can be rebuilt just fine, but they rarely are - and the 2x you note are in the territory of spending proper money to do a proper job, not a backstreet job. People think they can improve the OEM build and end up making things worse off - but then justify the reduced reliability "because race car".

I'm sure these guys are fine - as the OP noted, I do see the Polish guys building some mentally good stuff. But I've also seen enough race engines built that need rebuilding after every race "because race car", when in truth, leaving well alone in the first place would have yielded better results (To finish first, first you must finish).
Covkiller wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:22 am
What is so special about rebuilding an engine, they are not an un-reversible build and easy for an experienced specialist. Many punters with Porsches and Ferraris have their engines rebuilt, so what is so unique about Audi. I've already identified a specialist in Cov who can rebuild my RS4 heads and bottom engine to a better standard than factory. No fear hear. Go for it Zambo.

Come on Zambo rule No1
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"

ZamboRS6
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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by ZamboRS6 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:01 pm

Covkiller wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:22 am
What is so special about rebuilding an engine, they are not an un-reversible build and easy for an experienced specialist. Many punters with Porsches and Ferraris have their engines rebuilt, so what is so unique about Audi. I've already identified a specialist in Cov who can rebuild my RS4 heads and bottom engine to a better standard than factory. No fear hear. Go for it Zambo.

Come on Zambo rule No1
Rule No.1? Is that not FON?

Thought I already had that. Must be an echo chamber around here somewhere. Lol. ;-)

I am no mechanical expert, a noob, if you like, hence why I am here to get all your wonderful advice.

Doing great so far and appreciate it.

Understand regarding engine but, I don't think they have taken the whole thing to pieces. I'll get the guys to send more photos.

As mentioned, I am still very confident, they know what they are doing. They have rebuilt S, RS Audi and other high performance engines before.

They had to do a mates (Black on Black, RS6 C5 MTM) when an intake manifold shattered/cracked and bits got sucked into places where bits should not be. They rebuilt and tuned that sucker back up to over 550bhp and been no issues since, apparently.

Thanks a lot guys!

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by bam_bam » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:19 pm

FON is rule 2.
Rule 1 is rule 1.

Without rule 1 we'd all be just reading words on the Internet... come to think of it, just like what we've been doing for this entire thread. Drench.
No matter where you go, there you are.

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Brooner » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:21 pm

Yep need some pictures of this
2018 B9 RS4 Navarra Blue
2013 B8 RS4 Sepang Blue
2007 B7 RS4 Avant Sprint Blue
2001 B5 RS4 Nogaro Blue
1998 B5 S4 Avant Kingfisher Blue
1993 B4 S2 Avant laser Red

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Re: Rebuilding a Monster - The be-birth of Brutus Maximus

Post by Mɐʇʇ » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:03 pm

:biggrin3:
ZamboRS6 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:01 pm
...I am no mechanical expert, a noob....
ZamboRS6 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:01 pm
...I am still very confident....
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"

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