Suspect Abnormal Tyre Wear - RS6 Front Tyres

[SteveH]

Afternoon... I have got through a set of P Zero's on my RS6 about three years ago, I found they they wore unevenly, they wore as though they were over-pressure (wear in the centre of the tyre), but they were actually under-inflated from what was recommended, as I ran them at a pretty religous 38psi. My conclusion was that I was doing a lot of high-speed motorway miles when I first had the car, so centrifugal force caused higher wear in the centre of the tyre I'd say that 48 is a touch on the high side but not that over the top.

[chriswebb9]

Hi Lig!

I'll take your comments into account, as the signs of your centres wearing quicker on your car, would suggest that lower pressures are the way to go.

The whole front tyre thing for me and going against the manufacturers pressures dates back well over a decade. Basically, I've had many 3 litre Laguna's, where following the manufacturers pressures, results in the outer edges just wearing smooth, long before the rest of the tread does. The route cause has been the mass of the car has been forcing/pushing the sidewall out and rolling onto it's outer edges excessively as it's tried to tuck the tyre under the rim in a corner.

I didn't need to buy many sets of tyres on any of these cars, before I started experimenting and that's where I am with the RS6 really. To me, if the tyre looks unnaturally high or low across it's tread profile, when on the road, then I tweak the pressures accordingly. I perform an insane act in front of the neighbours, which basically involves lying down on my front looking straight on at the car. What I'm doing is getting the best natural view of the car.

In the case of my previous cars with all that mass of engine and autobox over the front wheels, they've rewarded me with a better ride and wear with more PSI in them historically. The make of tyre and sidewall construction plays a big part to me in what pressure I've put into them. Generally the softer sidewalled tyres like Avon's RV's & Dunlop's SP range, have needed more pressure than normal. On the flip side, the firmer walls of the Goodyear Eagle NCT range have managed on the upper end of the MFG's settings.

I have no knowledge of Pirelli's, or RS6's up until recently, so the familiarity with getting to know the car and it's preferences starts all over again for me. No doubt there will be other forum readers with their own slant on PSI based on how they use their cars and speeds taken up to etc.

It could well be that 48psi is a tad high at the front end, although, referring to the fuel flap, it's around acceptable limits, especially if loaded with people and fuel etc, as most of that weight is actually applied more to the rear end. The pressure max moulding on the tyre wall can more than tolerate this, as I think it goes up into the 50's as an advisory MAX, so at least the tyre can take it.

So, now I've bored you all with my logic, needless to say, if it needs tweaking further due to odd wear patterns emerging, then I'll adjust and report back to you.

Regards and I hope you still have a five mile wide smile everytime you go driving.

Chris.

Hi Chris,

Good post,

Reading your last update, I am suprised at the pressures, as I am also running PZ Rossos, have been for 15K miles now and I noticed slightly more wear at the fronts to the middle of the tyre, I was running 40psi all round (as per filler cap) but now have reduced this to 38psi and will see what happens. Is 48psi not a little too high?????!!!!!

Regards,
Lig.

[Rovi]

<resurrect zombie thread>

I have a question that is very closely related to the OP's tyre issue, so I hope that tacking it onto the end of this oldish thread is okay with the Mods.

Anyhow, I've got the exact same issue as the OP, with my front PS2s rubbing on the suspension under certain conditions of steering input and suspension load, leading to the same same circular wear pattern down to the canvas as in the OP's photos.

Neither I nor my tyre supplier/fitter knew anything about the R01 variant of the PS2 at the time they were purchased, so I strongly suspect I too got the regular version of the tyre.

Can anyone tell me if there's anything written on the tyre to confirm or deny the particular version?
ie. does the R01 tyre actually have 'R01' or some other identifying mark on it anywhere?

I ask because I was with my tyre guy when he ordered the tyres and he specifically told his suppliers that they were for a 2003 RS6, so I'm hoping we'll have a bit of leverage over them if they supplied they wrong version.


Finally:
Anyone have any thoughts on fitting new (or maybe even different brand) tyres to the front and leaving the older rears in place? The rears still have plenty of tread left, and it would really grieve my heart to have to bin them.

[HyOctane]

Just to add here..
My RS6 came new with P Zero rosso's.. also had an incredibly firm DRC setup. The first set lasted almost 20k miles and wore evenly. Replaced them with PS2's and shortly after, the DRC failed and was redone improperly.. this began a series of improper DRC repairs which resulted in the PS2's wearing out after 10k or so exactly as you describe. Interesting thing is that the control arms also were worn out. it is quite possible that if ones DRC has been repaired improperly as most have been, it allows far more vertical travel than it should which allows the suspension to compress more than it should.This can increase the camber angle and viola, your inner tires wear prematurely.. I believe this is part of the equation as the first set with proper DRC wore down evenly. Also, its apparent that the extra travel has caused the control arms to become stressed and fail prematurely as well.
I am currently following up on this and will report back ..
Lastly, the recommended tire pressure on the flap or inside rear door jamb is the minimum recommended pressure for safety, not the prefferred.. so if you drive at 38 psi, you will not be getting the optimum performance...Better to bump it up to at least 42 all round and see if this dosent improve the handling and response of the car..

[Rupert]

I think the range is 40-44. I find 44 is very hard, jarring - it makes me cringe. 38 is much more comfortable, and I'd like to think that it puts less strain on the DRC

[chriswebb9]

Hello members!

Right, if you've been in anyway interested in this 10/11 month old story, then I thought you'd appreciate a final conclusion of what the outcome was.

Very quickly outlining the script - I had PS2 Michelins with canvas showing on the inside edges. The aUDI dealer fitted fresh Pirelli P Zeros (because PS2's weren't available at the time - top tip here, if yours are low on tread, order in advance). Dealer then did tracking (they have to use new tyres to do this accurately apparently) and away I went.

I've done a bit of experimenting with pressures around 44 to 48 at the front and 40 to 42 at the rear.

Most of the fellow bloggers were right, in that 48 is a tad high, but the fuel flap guidance is lower than recommended for the P ZERO Pirellis.

Anyway, I've done 12,000 miles on them now and am due another MOT next month. The wear has been even and the tracking tweak has certainly stopped any uneven wear.

I will say that considering this car sees the other side of 100 every day on every trip, the supposedly soft Pirellis on this heavy car, have stood up rather well, with all things considered. I suspect there's about 15 - 18,000 miles worth of realistic life out of the Pirellis which ain't bad for the cost of these boots compared with the competition.

So, what's the conclusions?

1. There's nothing to be put off with if you have to buy the Pirelli's for your RS6 - If your an everyday all weather driver.

2. Getting your tracking done by your Audi dealer and using a master technician to check it is probably the safest bet. Unless you go to a specific independant specilist who know's there stuff. I really wouldn't advise a Kwik-fit style of tyre bay as they may not have all the data for your car.

3. Keeping a keen eye on your pressures helps get the most out of the tyre's life. You also may wish to add ipto 2 PSI to the rear and at least 4psi to the fronts, above the fuel flap recommendation.

4. Make sure the DRC system and related suspention linkages are all in order via an expert, as they can cause havoc - I'm on my 3rd set of warranty covered DRC dampers in the 4 years this car has been registered!!

5. If your a Michelin PS2 fan, make sure you have the R01's as they are specific to the RS6. If you have a non R01 PS2, they will fit and look the same, but may well generate abnormal wear, as they are not construted to suit the load and geometry of the RS6.

6. Listen to and read other members comments, as we're all part of a family whether we like it or not. The common link between us is the passion for the RS6 which is why we have them in the 1st place. So, in theory, nobody knows better than a time served owner who spends there own money in finding out the REAL rights n wrongs of what to do and use.


Happy motoring and keep on talking n typing.

Kindest Regards,
Chris Webb

[PaulRS6]

Chris, interesting series of threads you have started here, am only recently vested in to the '6 club myself so keen to see what's happening with other folk's cars. I don't know if you're aware there is a dyno day in Chobham at the end of March with lots of interesting cars going - it might be helpful. Have a look at www.audisrs.com

Grant - are you going to this, I'd be interested in talking to you about your remapping experiences?

[Rilla]

Hi, i got PZ rosso's too, same as above really, i got 'fairly' even wear with the centres being slightly lower than the edges. Got mine set to 40psi, rears on 38psi.

[the6]

Very interesting reading. Thanks so much for taking the time to write your experiences here which will of course be of huge benifit to so many.

I have just had to change the tyres on the front of my C5 "6". I have had it only two months now, but tread looked ok on what were Toyo proxy's.... "WHY"!! But then I looked at the inside walls!!!! AAARGGGGGGH

The tyre place recomended Michelin PS2 XL to match the rears. Rears are fine, plenty of life, the inside by the wall were well worn and dangerous. I have no idea as to why this would have happend, hence the infomation gathered from this post is most appreciated and frankly invaluable.

Now having said that, I have the new tryes on and am on the 2nd day from fitting, but the garage recomended the PSI @ 35.
Can I ask all you more experienced 6'ers, what do you think the best pressure for the PS2 to be? My 6 has H&R Coilovers, not DRC. Also prices of the PS2's, it has been mentioed that a set of 4 tyres recommended by Audi to be £750 etc, these PS2's were £550 for 2 tyres alone, is that right? That would put a full set at £1100!!! OWCH

Cheers all.

[SteveH]

Prices have fluctuated on tyres considerably. I've paid £550 for 2 tyres, but also seperately paid £800 for 4... shop around and never accept your first price, always deals to be done.

[Daveperc]

A couple of points

Most of us are running around 40psi - I would say 35 is too low, you'll get excessive wear on the shoulders as the tyre rolls on bends.

make sure they are the right PS2 spec - there is a specific version for the RS^ which doesn't foul on the front suspension arm (what ever your suspension set up).

And if you are going for 4 tyres why go for PS2's?? The Vred's are currently about £140 a corner, better performance and cheaper!

Dave