RS3 8V: One step at a time

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fagin
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RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by fagin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:34 pm

Anyone that knows of me via my previous Subaru and A45 project threads will appreciate I like to delve that little bit deeper with my project threads, at least in respect of the kind of testing and information I like to gather and share. I aim to ensure this RS3 project thread is no different.

What I aim to do is go into detail about what’s being done, why it’s being done and be utterly truthful about the results, supported by as much evidence as possible. I’m not going to state I’m looking to reinvent the wheel, but there is no harm in aiming to make a wheel better! I’m quite excited with the potential development areas that could be investigated.

I’m a “privateer” and enthusiast, so have nothing to gain from this…… other than I absolutely love doing this kind of thing, and love to learn and experience new things. If at least one other person finds this project interesting…… that’s a mega bonus!

My previous performance car was an AMG A45, which after going through a modification project, ended up being the quickest A45 down the drag strip in the UK. Didn’t break any “real drag” records, but it achieved a decent time of 11.80s. Not bad considering it was a hatch with pretty basic levels of tuning.

So… A45 move over. Here’s the RS3!

Why did I swap out for an RS3 then?

Being totally honest….. the limited tuning available for the A45, with the Achilles heel being the transmission.

I went out and bought an RS3, pretty much fully loaded…… the kicker being that based on what has already been done with the 2.5 engine, pretty extensive levels of tuning are available. Just up my road then! Lol

Approach - Project Roadmap
Obviously I can’t do this on my own, as the amount of resources needed to do this kind of project approach justice, is more than my brain, skill and hands can cope with. So I’ll be working with a number of “professionals” along the way, but more on that once we get things underway.

The areas I would like to cover/investigate are (we’ll have to see if all these come to fruition - although certain areas have already been discussed with the individual's I’ll be working with):

Tuning Box
Secondary Decat pipes
ECU remap
Uprated plugs
Look at intercooler and inlet efficiencies at this level, look at testing upgrades if warranted
Turbo (along with remap and again looking at intercooler and inlet efficiencies).

End target is at least 500bhp - ideally looking to get in the 10’s down the strip, but this will probably need quite a bit more than 500bhp - we’ll see how this all goes.

This is all very very high level, but gives an idea of the kind of steps I’ll be looking to take. Depending upon how the car reacts, I may look at chassis / suspension / braking mods. I will also be undertaking some subtle styling mods... just to jazz things up a touch. Nothing too "Halfords" though.... don't worry!

So…. that’s enough of the introductory stuff.

The next update will be coming your way soon - so let the fun begin guys. First round of performance mods and testing will be starting at the end of August.

I really hope (and encourage) for you all to get stuck in and feel free to contribute to this open discussion thread.

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by fagin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:36 pm

Styling Mods
So before we delve into the performance side of things I thought I would make a start with completing a few subtle styling mods.

Whilst we all know what an 8V RS3 looks like, here are a few pictures of mine as I picked it up from Audi.

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Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the RS3 styling takes a bit of a battering from some. In my eyes (well… I do wear glasses!) the RS3 (as with the rest of the RS range, R8 to one side) is pretty much a Q car. Understated, but does what it needs to from a performance perspective.

Based on the previous performance cars I’ve owned the RS3 is quite understated…. but I like that. It’s a change for me and quite a pleasant one. However, I thought I would add a few minor changes….. perhaps not to everyone’s taste but they are what they are.

Wing Mirrors
As you can see from the pictures above, my car originally came with the standard matt silver wing mirror covers. I wanted to change these to either black or carbon. Yes, I appreciate there were other options for different colours from Audi, but this car was dealer stock, so I made do with what I had.

I managed to get some carbon ones off eBay for £100, which was cheap, but they used OEM covers and had carbon fibre layered on. I thought for £100 it was worth a punt. After a speedy delivery they turned up. The quality was very good…. I was impressed.

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I had heard conflicting stories as to how you could remove the outer covers, with and without taking the whole assembly apart. After a thought process upon receiving the new ones, and seeing where all the lugs were located, I decided to have a go at removing the OEM covers WITHOUT taking the assembly apart.

The way to do this is by inserting a credit card (or equivalent) where you see in the picture below.

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Once you’ve pushed the card in far enough, you’ll see that the clip in that area will release.

If you then move the card to the right of the picture, you will start to release further clips. You then need to move the card all the way to the left. Once done, you should notice the right hand side starting to come away from the mirror assembly. You can then move the card up that vertical side to further release the cover. Finally give the assembly on the right hand side a slight pull and it should really start to open up.

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Now comes the bit where you need to be careful, but slightly forceful at the same time.

Whatever you do, do not pull the cover up. There is a horizontal clip at the left hand side (closest to the car), which will break off if you try to pull the cover up and off. You need to pull the cover into you from the front, gently but with a short / sharp action. It will just come off if you do this and all the clips will be retained.

Once the cover is off you’ll be left with the assembly behind the cover…… and no broken clips (if you do it correctly).

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The first mirror took me about 10 minutes as I was doing everything carefully to find my way around each clip. The second mirror took me about 2 minutes. I didn’t break a clip on either OEM cover.

The next bit is really easy….. you just push the new cover on, exactly how you removed the OEM cover. It clips straight back into place.

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As I said, quality is top notch and for a £100 they were very good value.

They have the desired effect, especially with the car being Daytona….. Looks quite stealth with black trim.

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Audi Rings
You might start to see a pattern as to where I’ll be going with this car…. external styling wise.

Next up was to replace the front and rear Audi rings with a black ring set. Now, I could have tried the plasti-kote method, but I decided to opt for replacement badge sets.

Again, eBay can be your friend here. I bought this set for just under £20 for the front and rear. You need to be careful ordering the correct front badge, as I understand the 8V badges are slightly bigger than the previous cars. You may also (if you’re eagle eyed) notice the smaller rear rings are slightly smaller than the OEM ones. This isn’t an issue, but there is a difference…. just so you’re aware.

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Rear Rings
I started off with replacing the rear ring set.

These are bonded on to the boot lid with adhesive, so using a hairdryer (the Mrs’ not mine as I haven't any hair!) I heated the rear badge, and then slid a credit card (same trick as with the mirror covers) between the badge and the boot lid skin to break the seal.

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Making sure you keep applying heat, keep repeating this process around the whole badge. I wouldn’t recommend you start to pull the badge off straight away…. you’ll probably end up snapping it. Just take your time.

Once you’ve removed the badge you will still be left with residue from the glue.

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At this point I continued to apply heat and pulled off further what I could.

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With the last bits of glue left I then turned to using some glue / tar remover (TARDIS). I’ve used this for many years to remove tar from the sides of cars and glue from vinyl car stickers. This emulsifies with water, so is really easy to rinse off. You don’t want any wax or cutting agents left on the panel prior to putting your new badge on.

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After liberally applying TARDIS and cleaning / rinsing the panel, it was all clear / clean and ready for the new badge.

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To ensure I put the new badge on square I measured and placed a masking tape line (with a centre position) on the boot lid and offered up the new badge before final fitment.

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After I was happy with the positioning I then stuck the new badge on, peeling off the backing to the new adhesive layer on the new badge. Personally I always gently heat the adhesive…. not too much, but just enough to help the bonding process.

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Front Rings
Next up was the front ring set. Again I had heard conflicting stories about removing these. Some saying you needed to remove the front bumper, others saying you can reach down from the top and get to the clips and one other I saw said you could remove from the front. I chose the latter!

In my opinion I would not advise you try to remove the rings from the front (without taking the bumper off) unless you have suitable trim tools, spudgers etc. You’ll either risk snapping the oem badge or damaging the badge grill surrounds.

Using a trim tool start from the bottom. With your new badge as a guide, you’ll see exactly where the securing tabs are and this is where you need to feed the trim tool in to push the tabs back.

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As you pop the bottom clips you’ll see the badge coming away from the grill.

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Once you’ve released the bottom and lower side / centre side clips, then move to the top clips.

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This is the first time I’ve done this and it only took me around 10 minutes. Just to prove I never broke any clips, here is the underside of the OEM badge. There was zero damage to the badge / grill surround either.

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Once removed you’ll be faced with the grill ring mount, which will need a minor clean up prior to fitting the new ring set.

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Mounting the new ring set is easy. Just push it on ensuring all the clips are engaged correctly.

Much like the mirrors, I really like the look of the all black trim set. Makes it look stealth, but also aggressive…. not everyone’s cup of tea I’m sure.

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So for the time being that’s the first round of styling mods. I’m planning to do a few more things, but I’ll discuss this as and when I get to do them.

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by fagin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:38 pm

Stock Power Performance Benchmarking
Whilst this piece of benchmark data will be quite specific, it will give a baseline for where the car is at the moment in its stock state. As I progress I will be gaining more data, not just from the drag strip, but also from getting VBOX logs for acceleration and in-gear performance. I have a lot of data from my previous A45 (which will be a good comparison), together with other RS3 data I have from a REVO tuned Stage 1 and MRC Stage 3 car. I’ll be overlaying and all sorts, so this will be interesting moving forward. Of course I’ll also gather dyno information as I progress… again, I can overlay this data against my A45 for comparison.

Shakespeare County Raceway
So three weeks back, after running the car in (just over 1k on the clock), I ventured down to Shakespeare to see what my stock car would do. Obviously the engine would still be fairly tight, but I needed to get some baseline data in.

As they say….. The bullshit stops when the flag drops. You’ll hear me repeat that quite a few times throughout this project thread!

I haven’t had the car on the weighbridge yet (will do though) but it is pretty highly spec’d, at least in regards to the “added weight” options! Lol Good for the gadgets…. Not so great for acceleration.

I personally prefer Shakespeare as it’s normally quieter than the Pod…. this day was no exception.

It was a warm day, circa 24degs and little to no wind. The downside was that the track had not been used in a few weeks and it had been raining the day before. Surface prep is key at these places.

I don't really like running early on, especially when no events were the previous day. You tend to find the start line will be a tad "waxy" until some rubber goes down and the track heat starts to build up a bit.

I understand that the RS3 suffers with intercooler issues in warm weather (the A45 charge cooler was unbelievably efficient and effective), so to some degree I wasn’t expecting the car to perform it’s best.

After signing on you need to get your car scrutineered. Not something you need to do at Santa Pod. The rules are the rules though! Lol Thankfully being a new car, it didn’t take long. The scrutineers laughed when they found out how many miles were on it.

Once scrutineered you’re given a running number, which is painted (don’t worry it comes off) on your back screen. Well, they gotta know which car to log the times against.

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It was a shame I didn’t arrive a couple of minutes earlier…. I could have bagged “A3” as my number!!!!

So with the car ready, I went down to the “fire up lane” in readiness for my virgin run in the RS3.

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Yes… I was first in line.

First run 12.22 @ 111.94mph
Believe it or not this was the first time I had actually launched the RS3. I was a bit nervous I was going to balls it up, but unlike the A45 LC, the RS3 is so much easier to set-up. And unlike my A45, the RS3 just gripped and went like a stabbed rate off the line. Christ the LC on the RS3 is smooth…. Like so smooth. The gearbox as well is a country mile better than the Mercs on the strip. The whole run just went ahead with no drama….. It felt good, which the time and terminal speed showed. This is pretty damn quick for a stock hatchback.

Second run 12.24 @ 110.50mph
Felt just as good as the first run….. How’s the time for consistency. Lol Not sure why the trap speed had decreased… could have been heat soak perhaps.

Now normally I’d be getting really anal and checking / playing with tyre pressures (lowering pressures can aid launch grip), but since this car just launched with no wheel spin or axle tramp, I really didn’t see the need to faff around with anything. The 60ft times back that up with a good 1.79s and 1.80s respectively.

Quite abnormal for me I decided at this point to hand in the gloves. I was happy with those times with a stock car, and as they were so close on both runs, I didn’t think there was much point in further runs. In reality I should have parked the car up and ran later on in the day, once more rubber had been put down…. It may have helped.

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Santa Pod
This weekend I decided to take the car down the strip again….. Just for a bit of fun of course! This time though I was going to use the UK’s de facto drag strip. Santa Pod.

The reason for going in reality was I wanted to see if I could better the previous 12.2 and also try a different launch technique to see if I could bring the 60ft time down. Improving the 60ft time can have a dramatic affect on the ET’s.

Luckily the day was dry, sunny but was once again warm. Certainly felt warmer than the 25deg ambient suggested. The event was pretty busy as well. Not great and something I don’t really like about the Pod…. it tends to get very busy, which means you spend a lot of time queuing for your next run. Not ideal by any stretch.

I actually didn’t arrive until lunch time, but I had already heard via whatsapp that the track appeared to be running slower than normal (based on the times that other guys were getting - not in RS3’s mind). There was also a cross wind…. again pretty normal for the Pod.

First run 12.53 @ 108.73
For the first run I launched as I had previously as Shakespeare, using Sports mode on the ESC. It felt good and smooth….. Until I saw my timing slip. Christ that wasn’t good at all. Lol 60ft wasn’t brilliant at 1.82s, but certainly nothing that made me think that was the reason for the slower ET.

Second run 12.44 @ 109.65
Due to the amount of cars running and I did rejoin the queue straight away, I had to wait nearly an hour for the next run. I forgot to take my OBD logger with me, but my charge inlet temps must have been sky high.

This time I tried launching with the ESC OFF.

As soon as the car launched it lit the front tyres up and I had slight axle tramp. Because of this I thought the run was not as good, but it certainly bettered the previous run. The 60ft time had dropped to a good 1.75s, which was where I really wanted to be.

Third run 12.34 @ 111.25
Again, well over another hour had passed before getting my third run in.

For this run I went back to the ESC in Sports Mode, just to see what would happen to the 60ft. It went back up to 1.83, but the overall run was quicker and with a better trap speed. Not sure if the track was starting to improve or what.

Anyway… it was now just before 4pm and I didn’t think there was much more reason to carry on, so I called it a day.

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Of course I was hoping I could achieve a better time overall at either event, but all things considered it’s bloody quick for a stock hatchback. As a comparison my previous A45 was no quicker down the strip when it had a Tuning Box fitted (running 12.2s). Stock, the A45 runs around a 12.7s quarter.

At the end of the day this provides a baseline…… future times will be a good comparison.

I hope to be back down the strip in September once I’ve added the first round of mods.

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by fagin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:39 pm

Feedback on some of the common “issues”
I thought I would also add some feedback on my experiences over the past 3k miles of use in respect of, shall we say, some of the more common problems reported with the RS3.

To add some context this is a second car for me. More of a weekend blaster in reality. However, saying this I have managed to cover just over 3k miles in 12 weeks. This has predominantly been down to the running in, wanting to get that out of the way, and also a Scotland Road Trip I undertook in the RS3 last week.

I’ll digress slightly, but if you have never done a full on road trip around Scotland…. I would highly recommend you do it.

I’ve been threatening to do this for years and now wish I had years ago.

What a fantastic place to drive…. Yes there are still places in the UK for doing that! And the scenery… simply wow!

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Over 6 days we covered just over 1500 miles in the RS3, and it was faultless from a drivers perspective. Opening the car up over the highlands was great and the car was effortless to drive quickly.

Oil Consumption
I haven’t owned a VAG car for some years now, and when I did they weren’t renowned for chomping oil. Whilst I’m not suggesting they are chompers now, they do appear to have a leaning towards an engine that tends to consume oil. Due to this I have regularly monitored the oil level.

Prior to going on the trip to Scotland the dipstick was at MAX, so that was after 1500 miles.

As soon as arrived back at home (just over 3k miles in total), I parked the car up in the garage and left it for 10 mins and then checked the dipstick.

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As you can see it is virtually MAX.

The next morning I checked it again (cold) and it was at the same level one side and two diamonds down from MAX on the other side.

After I went down Santa Pod at the weekend I checked it again when home (warm). It had returned to MAX on both sides.

If it’s used any oil over the past 3k miles it is certainly minimal.

I’m quite anal about the running in process and whilst I don’t smash the backside out of the engine during that period, I certainly ensure it gets a varied workout, with plenty of mixed loading. Using the box often and engine braking quite a lot. Whether this has helped with my oil usage, who knows, but it’s the approach I have always taken with new engines.

I will obviously still monitor oil usage but based on what I’ve done so far I can’t see consumption being an issue, especially as I’ll normally only do around 5k per year and I’m on fixed 12 month services.

Brake Squeal
Not one bit of squeal or brake performance issue so far. Not saying it won’t happen, but nothing has materialised yet. Discs are clean and pads look 100% with no sign of accelerated wear.

Knocking Rear Top Mounts
Quiet and no noise. My car is a March 16 build date iirc, so not sure if that makes a difference. Again, no issues thus far.

The car had quite a heavy workout over the Highlands, but as of yet, none of the common issues have really reared their heads.

We’ll obviously see how this goes moving forward.

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by fagin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:40 pm

Oil
Whilst I appreciate this might be a really dry subject to some, others may know this already, but I assume some people won’t (as I’ve seen a few questions about this crop up in relation to the RS3).

The amazing subject of oil…..

So what oil do you need for the RS3?
There are effectively two VW specifications of oil for the RS3, and these are dependant (in-line with manufacturer recommendations) dependant on what type of servicing your car is setup for. That is whether your RS3 is Variable or Fixed servicing.

For Fixed Service intervals the specification recommendation is VW 502.

For Variable Service intervals the specification recommendation is VW 504 / 507.

Why the difference?
Effectively the 504 / 507 specification is classed as “longlife”. Both specifications are fully synthetic, but 504 / 507 has a different composition (additives) to ensure the oil maintains its desired properties for longer. Hence why the service interval on variable (using longlife oil) is longer than the fixed interval.

So the first indicator as to which type of oil you need would be initially based on what your servicing schedule has been set to (coupled with what oil resides in already - see next point).

Will I cause any harm if I use 504 / 507 specification oil in a car with a Fixed Service?
No, although there is an argument that you are using oil beyond the specification you need (and it will normally cost more). It’s down to you though in reality.

On the flip side to this though, you really don’t want to be using 502 specification in a car which is set to Variable Service intervals!

Oil Weight
The second element of oil choice is based on the weighting of the oil, however, don’t assume that the weighting dictates the alignment to any specific VW specification. It doesn’t! Hence the reason for highlighting the VW specification first in this discussion.

The weighting is expressed in the format of xxW/xx.

These numbers are to do with the viscosity (thickness) of the oil, both at cold (first number) and at normal operating (second number) temperature.

The norm for the RS3 appears to be 5W/30 although 0W/30 is also available (maybe others?) against the VW specification.

Personally I would tend to use the thicker (5W) oil, because if there is any piston blow by, which is probably the reason for the oil consumption of VAG engines (loose tolerances on ring to bore clearances), a thicker weight when cold may at least help reduce usage during the cold start-up period.

On another note, I never let the car idle on the drive (for instance) when it’s cold. This, imo, will only add to wear acceleration. I get in it and off down the road to get the car up to normal temperature as soon as practically possible. That isn’t by thrashing its pants whilst cold obviously! Lol

Can I mix oil of different grades and specifications (in respect of what’s been discussed here)?
Physically yes, but it would be common sense to ensure whatever oil has been put into the engine as part of the servicing regime, the same viscosity and specification is maintained with any top ups. As long as viscosity and specification is the same, brand of oil should not matter. You also wouldn’t want to mix specifications if your car is set to Variable Servicing (as previously stated).

To finish off with I ordered some oil for top-up purposes (just preparing myself in case lol) from Opie Oils. I’ve never used them before, but I know they’ve been around for some years now.

I ordered 5ltrs (4+1tr) of Castrol Edge Titanium FST 5W-30 (VW 504/507) on Friday and it arrived today… all for a very good price of £40 delivered! In comparison, Halfords wanted £67 for the same amount!! Ha

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Oil choice shouldn’t be an area of confusion, so hopefully this helps with making it simple. :)

One last piece of utterly boring information for you is that I have also just had this delivered today, to carry on with the recent styling theme changes. A rear boot RS3 badge….. In black.

I’ll get around to fitting this when the weather permits!

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£6 off eBay

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by fagin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:42 pm

Rear RS Badge
Decided to replace the rear RS3 badge today, with the black one recently purchased.

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This time I wanted to mark the original badge out as this is a three piece badge.

All I did was mask below the original badge and mark where each specific character was…. Saves any guessing come positioning of the new one!

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Same kind of deal as with the removal of the rear rings. Apply heat and then slip a credit card down, however, when it came to removing the R and red block that method didn’t work.

Due to that part of the badge being mega flush with the panel I had to use some dental floss (couldn’t get the card behind), which acted like a cheese wire. Just hook it around the top left hand corner and slower pull it behind the badge to the opposite corner. Comes off in seconds that way.

Once removed I cleaned it up as with the rings.

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With the guide in place and the relevant marks, repositioning the new badge is really easy. The characters on the new badge were ever so slightly smaller, but it doesn’t make any different in reality.

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I might be tempted to pull the rear exhaust tips off and get them powder coated in black, when I get the wheels done. Just to finish off the rear.

Due to get the car on the dyno this coming week, fit the secondary decats and Tuning Box. That’s when I can get stuck into the logging and the real fun begins.

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by chunky79 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:15 pm

FON

Nice write up. I'm not a big fan of the RS3 but I do enjoy a modding thread.
previous- Pug 205 gti, 306 gti, 309 gti Goodwood.
Audi S3, S4 V8 avant.
Porsche Macan Turbo.
Gone but NEVER forgotten - C5 RS6 Misano red avant.

Now - Empty garage

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there!

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by MikeFish » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:49 pm

Good write up. It looks like you copied this from another forum; where have you previously posted this if you don't mind me asking?
What tuning box you going for? I have DTUK one sitting in my utility room. Been there for months, can't decide whether to install it or not.

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by fagin » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:22 pm

Mike,
I'm the same person as posted on the RS3OC forum etc..... just spreading the love! :lol:

It will be a Litchfield Tuning box which uses the DTE hardware platform.

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by MikeFish » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:55 pm

Aha, I wondered if you were a member on there. I must have missed your thread on there as I don't go on there as often anymore, but I just had a look for it as I didn't recognise Fagin as a username over there. I see now though and have realised who you are. Thanks for sharing your thread here as well though, it's an interesting read.

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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by fagin » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:51 pm

Preamble - Performance Tuning
First off I would like to underline a key point. I’m not suggesting at the moment that I’m going to find out anything new or revolutionary. A lot of the initial steps I’ll be taking will undoubtedly be exactly the same as others have done before me. But I need to do it “one step at a time”, because that’s the way you learn using a pragmatic approach.

If you’re looking for “just” power graphs and peak figure talk….. whilst you’ll find that information here, this is really not what my project thread will be about - there is a lot more to modifications than just using these two elements as reference.

If I have one “mission” in life, that “mission” is to keep highlighting that on their own, peak figures mean diddly squat. If you just skim read this project, focussing on peak values and comparing those with other peak values (from others achievements), you are in my opinion, missing valuable context. Peak figures do not make for a quick car, and they certainly don’t tell you what you really need to appreciate. Peak figures are for the pub - and the next round won’t be on me!

You best get your empty plate ready, grab some salt and pepper, tuck your napkin in under your chin and prepare yourself for a mammoth “eat as much as you like” experience!!

I want to understand the detail of why and how, which will hopefully allow us all to understand how things could be improved and what is potentially looked at next in the journey.

First thing is to state is that Litchfield Motors will be the key company I’ll be working with at this stage. They have worked with me on three previous projects (two Subaru’s and my previous A45 AMG) since 2005, and they’ve always come up with the goods for me.

Performance measurement and tuning aids - Rolling Road Overview
Perhaps the single biggest bone of contention is how I would decide to measure/test for any increases (and of course decreases) in power, when looking at engine modifications. Several ways exist, namely use of a Rolling Road, Engine Dyno, Performance Meters and the regularly used “arse dyno”.

For the purpose of engine based modifications, stats will be attained by use of a Rolling Road, coupled with real driving feedback on the road.

Even though we may all agree that various rolling roads will give different readings, and the arguments that RR figures at X are incorrect and RR figures at Y are correct, is meaningless to a degree.

Although many conditions even on the same rolling road can cause changes in figures, we need something we can use to compare with accuracy and repeatability. Obviously the more conditions you can stabilise the more your figures will be representative.

Now, before I explain things further it’s probably worth me stating one thing here and now. I’m a self confessed “dyno queen”. At a guess, I suspect I have had well in excess of 500 runs on various dyno’s over the years (I wouldn’t actually be surprised if it’s closer to 1000 runs).

Even though I’m just a member of the Joe Soap gang, this number of runs on various dyno set-ups across the UK has provided me a vast amount of knowledge around this area. I’m sure we’ve all seen the arguments about which ones do or don’t over read. How important wheel horsepower is and how inaccurate flywheel horsepower is!?

Let’s get one thing straight…. a dyno is a tool, and if used correctly, a very valuable tool.

For the pub talk fanatics out there you know which type of dyno to go to, to receive inflated figures. If that makes you feel better, bully for you….. it’s your money and your ego. Personally, I place more emphasis on accuracy and repeatability.

Remember... there are lies, damn lies and dynos!

I could tell you heaps of ways that I could alter the way a car was run on a dyno, that would influence the figures obtained. Be rest assured that this is all about being “real” from my perspective. I have nothing to gain from presenting inflated figures, and it’s certainly not something I suspect you want to see.

If you are not already aware, power figures on Rolling Roads are normally part measured and part calculated. For the purpose of this project we will be showing flywheel BHP and torque figures. The core reason behind this is that here in the UK, that is our normal method of measurement. Some people will suggest that wheel horsepower figures are the be all and end all. I totally disagree in respect of chassis dynos. Like flywheel figures, wheel horsepower figures can also be up for a “slagging”. Different chassis dynos will undoubtedly produce different wheel horsepower figures. Why? Well it’s to do with the physical makeup of the dyno, like the rollers used and how all the “gubbins” works to “measure” the power. I could then start to talk about tyre deformation and the effect this has, but I suspect that will send you to sleep.

Some others will then take the stance that it matters not what figures the dyno produces, it’s the difference of the before and after in percentage terms. With people using those % differences as a defacto way of measuring performance. You have to be open minded about this as well, as you’re assuming conditions are like for like and that the power reported is based on linear measurements on a like for like basis, with the previous run. You can not guarantee that, especially when you’re using a dyno setup that you already know provides inaccurate data.

It makes absolute sense to start off with a dyno that you feel provides accuracy from the get go. It makes no sense to start off with a dyno that you already know provides inflated figures. This is assuming you want a level of accuracy in respect of figures attained….. although there are other key (and more important) reasons why a dyno provides a worthy advantage to tuning overall. This is something that will be explained further at appropriate points in this project.

Performance measurement and tuning aids - Which type of chassis dyno?
OK…. so I want to use a dyno that provides accurate (within context) flywheel figures and repeatable results. But what about the known issue of Haldex transmission and dynos?
The RS3 uses a Haldex system to manage traction (torque balance) between the front and rear axles. Predominantly the system is front wheel, but has the capability to shift torque to the rear axle, when it detects slip at the front. So why is this a potential problem?

Since the Haldex system can and does switch to 4WD, you need to use a 4WD dyno for starters. I know some people have forced 2WD, but that’s certainly not indicative of what the car will do on the road.

Many 4WD dynos have locked front and rear rollers (resistance wise), which for a permanent 4WD system (like on a Subaru) that’s all fine. For a Haldex equipped car….. that’s potentially very bad. In basic terms, running a Haldex car on a non-Haldex compatible dyno can result in damaged transmission. You need to use a dyno that is able to adjust resistance as required, between front and rear.

So let’s assume we have that situation covered with the dyno choice made.

The “cell” in which the dyno is located is also very important if you want to maintain accuracy and repeatable results.

Airflow is paramount in achieving both accuracy and a level of safety of your vehicle during dyno use. A dyno is a VERY harsh environment for your car, so you need to ensure that the best environment within the cell is provided. Decent airflow not only helps with replicating (as best as you can) road conditions, but also ensures appropriate airflow assists cooling. A properly constructed dyno “cell” will support these requirements.

There are so many so called “cells” that are effectively in part of the workshop. You’ve seen them. Big open spaces and very high ceilings. Trying to control airflow and pressure in a large space is going to be extremely difficult, if nigh on impossible with the majority of fan and exhaust systems tuners use. The smaller the “space” (cell), the better the environment can be stabilized and controlled, with appropriate fan and exhaust systems shifting huge amounts of air in and out.

Taking all of this into consideration, and based upon my previous experience of using this type of dyno (to appreciate it’s repeatability), I’ll be using the latest MAHA MSR dyno.

An added benefit of the MAHA is that it measures coast down (transmission drag) to derive a flywheel BHP figure (wheel figure + coast down). On a chassis dyno this is the only way to more accurately measure transmission losses. Forget the “fixed %” that is used by so many…. drivetrain losses are not linear. Just think about heat build up (friction/drag) in your drivetrain, which builds as torque is created. The higher the temps, the more friction and greater the losses.

Performance measurement and tuning aids - Racelogic VBOX
We know (well…. I hope we do!) it’s not all about dyno figures, and whilst I’ll be explaining how you should dissect a dyno graph to gain the important information (and that’s NOT going to be about peak figures in isolation), we really need to gauge performance on the “black stuff” surely. Part of this will be completed via road driving feedback, but that can be subjective to a degree. What we really need is another “measure” to compliment ALL the information that is being gathered.

Performance monitoring as regards to recording 0-60, 0-100 & 1/4m times was historically a bit hit and miss as far as the high street consumer has been concerned. Whilst a number of solutions have existed that are very accurate, the costs involved with these solutions had always been out of reach, except for those that require such equipment for official testing and have the budgets to substantiate such equipment.

With the advancements of GPS and the keen pricing of such equipment to the general consumer sector, a new solution appeared on the market a few years ago, that now makes this kind of performance testing, both extremely cost effective and accurate.

RaceLogic have constructed an all-in-one solution that combines a single unit that not only houses all the sensors, GPS receivers and built in screen, but it also gives the ability to log results which can be stored on a memory card and later read and analysed using some very powerful software supplied. All you need is a fag lighter socket (for power) and off you go…… sounds too simple to actually be true and accurate doesn’t it….. well let me assure you it is certainly both simple to use and very accurate. I’ve personally been using these devices for years, attaining “figures” and times which have been referenced against specialist and very expensive timing equipment.

My weapon of choice is the Racelogic Drift Box.

Firstly don’t let the name Drift Box put you off….. this little box of tricks is far more than a box that shows you drift angles!

For the purpose of this project and testing, I suspect we will be concentrating on the uses of the Performance Meter, Lap Timer and Data Logger.

Performance Meter
With the DriftBox it is very easy to measure acceleration times, braking distances, quarter miles times and much more. There are a number of configurable screens that show specific test results such as 0-60, 0-100, 0-100-0, 1/2 miles and ¼ mile etc.

DriftBox is based on the Racelogic VBOX, which is used by the majority of car manufacturers, tyre manufacturers and car magazines around the world to assess performance.

Because it is very easy to edit the test ranges, DriftBox is a very powerful tool for use in many different kinds of vehicle testing.

Lap Timer
Displaying your lap times as you drive around a circuit is simple with DriftBox. You can display your current, last and best lap times, and also display split times for up to six specified split points around the lap.

Through the DriftBox forum you are able to download circuit overlays from around the world, compare lap times, and share lap overlay data with other users.

Data Logger
Every item of data that the DriftBox displays (and loads more besides) is logged and can be recorded on a SD card. This can be read in to a PC at a later date to analyse. The piece of software that comes with the DriftBox to enable this function is very powerful indeed, giving you many different tabular and graphing facilities to display and compare the information captured. The software will even enable you to "play back" captured data sets on screen.

How accurate is it?
Amazingly accurate!!!!!

The lap timing mode proved (based on my testing) to be within .1 seconds accuracy of official track timing equipment.

The performance meter proved (based on my testing) to be within .1 seconds accuracy of several FIA approved drag strips for the 1/4m.

I say all of this I now need to buy a new one as mine appears to give me results that are much slower than real. lol It’s only recently developed this fault…. Being over 10yrs old probably doesn’t help and it’s been dropped a few times. That’s another £500 to fork out then! :D

Right…. that’s enough “rice” for the entree.

You best visit the toilet for a bowel movement and make some space for the main course (some fitment and testing of tuning products), which will be up for “tasting” shortly!

See you in a couple of days.

535dboy
Top Gear
Posts: 2312
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:35 pm

Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by 535dboy » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:35 am

Wow

Very detailed, I suspect Paulm will be interested in this when he sees it, probably right up his street.

I'll keep an eye on progress although it might get a bit techy fit me!
Currently :
2019 Porsche 992S (£21k of extra toys)
2019 Porsche Macan S (£18k of extra toys)
2015 Lotus Exige V6 ( c430bhp)
2019 Seat Ibiza excellence Lux! (115bhp, 3 cyl, dsg)
1987 Porsche 928S4
1967 Jaaag Mk2 3.4

Ex
2017 AMG E class wagon
2012 Audi RS4 (B8)
2012 Porsche Boxster S (981)

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FaisalJ
Cruising
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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by FaisalJ » Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:43 am

Good read on the train, thanks for the detail! Looking forward to the next instalment.
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2007 RS4 B7 Avant
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asifg
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Location: Milton Keynes

Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by asifg » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:32 am

I'll bookmark this!

Looking at getting an RS3 next year when I sell the B7 RS4 so this'll be useful!

Thanks for sharing!

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TobyRS4
2nd Gear
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Re: RS3 8V: One step at a time

Post by TobyRS4 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:00 pm

Great write up and detail, as above il keep an eye peeled as a potential change to an RS3 in the future is something i'm considering too.
Sprint Blue B7 RS4 - Black/Titanium optics, Anthracite OEM 19's, De-resonated OEM Exhaust, TTRS FBSW, MRC Stage 2 De-flapped manifold, Full Carbon Clean, MRC Stage 2 Re-map, 431.5 BHP...... must...not...spend....more...

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