APR MTM GIAC AMS Chip Shootout Info

[Joules]

Hi all,

I have been researching which chip/re-map to go with and found this http://www.europeanspeed.com/ sorry there is no direct link but follow the Audi icon and then S4 chip shoot out.

Interesting result.... some maps are less progressive than others due to an intentional spike put in early on. Sometimes as high as 1.4 bar. Its personal choice but I prefer progression.

Some info on REVO...S4 re-map available 1st April. I have been offered an upgrade flash into the ECU EPROM as a 2 hour demo so I can assess the performance before paying. Once the flash has been done then or at a later date you can purchase switches 1,2 or 3. The latter allow varying degrees of program control and security.

So it looks like there is another very serious contender in the ECU upgrade market. I've got to say ...here in the UK we are ripped off on price. In the states you can get a brand new S4 ECU with ABT chip upgrade for £850...

It just a shame about the shipping costs because ECS too are really good value.... they are doing a bi-pipe and two forge BPV's package for $549!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd/pag ... erformance

Laters all,

Joules

[jeffw]

I'm not sure I agree regarding being ripped off. It takes a reasonable amount of time to build a map for the Car at AmD and for the increase performance £850 is well worth it.

[Andiroo]

The much debated rechip Vs RR&remap [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Jeff has got it spot on Joules. If you had a choice between a generic solution or a specific solution - what would you go for?

There have been several noted problems with some conversions from both APR and Revo for this very reason - other peoples words not mine, well documented on tyesmoke.net and audi-sport.net (as I'm sure you will find out form your posts on there [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

Value for money? Sure [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
The safest and best way to do it? No [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I know that there is talk of Revo possibly mapping whilst driving (with some onboard diagnostic equipment), although I'm not sure if this true or not. If it is then it still is some way off a RR setup coz you dont get to see plots of how your motor has responded, but still its another step in the right direction as its not just plug in and away you go.

Hey PhilT [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I know you have had talks with these guys on a possible RS4 solution - what's your view on all this?

Andiroo

[PhilT]

Well I've been trying to stay out of this for a very serious reason. I had been a long standing customer of AmD and have spent a sizable amount of money with them over the past few years.

Recently I have been discussing the brake upgrade I have been involved in developing with both AmD and Revo. I decided to let Revo have the opportunity to take this onboard, and was offered the chance to assist in the final testing of the RS4 code. So, recently I visited Revo, and in front of my eyes they removed my ECU and opened it up to try and put back to as standard state as possible. I always thought that AmD stood for quality work, and even though the remap was great the implementation of the chip left a lot to be desired (I now have an idea why it took so long to do).

I don't want to start a tuner war, but I feel there is a lot to be said for having the Revo remap solution. I wish my ECU had never been touched by a soldering iron [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] (Anybody with and RS4 wanting to do a remap and would like an already 'messed with' ECU, I'll swap mine!!).

In addition I think that what Revo do is way beyond what other people in the market are doing. The SPS modules are great; Simply put - I can adjust the performance for track days, put it back to stock, and have it in the 'tuned' mode.

As for Rolling Road, well as far as stage 1 goes, the majority of engines will be the same. Once the exhaust (Downpipes + Cats + Cat back) is changed then there may be a need to adjust things slightly. Note that MTM do not have a rolling road and produce good reliability and figures.

I have spoken to Revo about rolling roads, and I think that if you give them a call they may be able to help. They have great customer service, and in the current financial climate:

Good Customer Service = Good Reputation

Nuff said.

[johneroberts]

As for Rolling Road, well as far as stage 1 goes, the majority of engines will be the same. Once the exhaust (Downpipes + Cats + Cat back) is changed then there may be a need to adjust things slightly. Note that MTM do not have a rolling road and produce good reliability and figures.

Actually Phil MTM have one of the most accurate rolling roads around [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], there chips are cloned and then fitted by there agents, some have Rolling Roads, others do not, QST who are the MTM consessionares in the UK are just about to install a £80,000 Marhar Rolling Road, thus making them able to then fine tune the cars individually to optimise not comprimise. [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

Cheers
jr

[Thorney]

Phil, I don't wish to appear contentious but a free Revo remap does not necessarily mean your opinion will be treated with the respect it probably deserves? [img]images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

No offence meant of course. [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DuncS3]

The much debated rechip Vs RR&remap [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

There have been several noted problems with some conversions from both APR and Revo for this very reason - other peoples words not mine, well documented on tyesmoke.net and audi-sport.net (as I'm sure you will find out form your posts on there [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])

Andy, I havent heard of any APR problems, and the only REVO 'problem' I have heard of was Ben Jacks which turned out to be a faulty MAF sensor?

Dunc [img]images/graemlins/s3addict.gif[/img]

[Thorney]

Dunc, did you pay for yours or was it a free upgrade from Revo? Just curious.

I have heard of other problems on a variety of cars with a variety of reasons as I am sure AMD and MTM etc have also suffered from - not right for me to comment on what I do not know directly however.

[TimJMS]

Does anyone have any firm, empirical evidence capable of proving claimed performance advantages behind a "chip" upgrade on its own? Data taken from a well calibrated accelerometer (same car, same day pre and post chipping) would be useful.

My own experiences on track and with a previously chipped vehicle tell me that a simple rechipping on its own aint worth a kick up the arse. Rolling road figures seldom translate into "actual" real world performance advantages, and in any case can be manipulated by the operator.

Come on. I want hard evidence of where a chip on its tod can make my car appreciably faster.

[DuncS3]

I had a free upgrade to REVO from my APR chip (which i paid for originally) - but REVO are publicly offering free upgrades from APR to REVO.
I didnt have to upgrade and obviously why upgrade if you didnt think it was better?, as you have already shelled out the money, but I can assure you it feels quicker than my previous APR - I prefer it, plus my car now has the standard Audi Chip (my original one) back in place in the ECU...

Dunc [img]images/graemlins/s3addict.gif[/img]

[PhilT]

Phil, I don't wish to appear contentious but a free Revo remap does not necessarily mean your opinion will be treated with the respect it probably deserves? [img]images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

No offence meant of course. [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Fair point, but then I did pay nearly £1500 for my AmD remap which ended up in the bin [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] . 'Competivite Upgrade' is what I'd call it. I expect to get better results from the Revo code, so we'll see what happens.

BTW - If it's good, I'll harp on about it. Like I did with AmD for years, but now I'm afraid that now people who replace the chip when it is not necessary are bad in my books [img]images/graemlins/033102bad_1_prv.gif[/img].

[DuncS3]

PPS I preferred my previous APR over AMD and MTM S3s, but REVO is even better, so I feel I have the best for me. Plus I really trust Mitchell and respect his technical know how

Dunc [img]images/graemlins/s3addict.gif[/img]

[PhilT]

Tim, here is the AmD bhp plot. They were done on the same day as the rechip, and by AmD on their premises....

[img]images/rsul/6017-PhilT%20-%20bhp.jpg[/img]

[PhilT]

lbft

[img]images/rsul/6018-PhilT%20-%20lbft.jpg[/img]

[PhilT]

and Nm

[img]images/rsul/6019-PhilT%20-%20Nm.jpg[/img]