Oil - The basics

Discuss common aspects of Audi RS and S tuning and modifications
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Tomson
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RE: Oil - The basics

Post by Tomson » Wed May 24, 2006 4:45 pm

Hi all,

I wanted to wait until the oil showed up, before reporting on the service etc etc.

I purchased the Motul 8100 E-Tech 0w-40 as recommended by Opie Oils. I also bought it from them, ordered on Friday and delivered today. Cost was £66.99 for 10ltrs. Service was good as was the on-line purchasing.


Cheers,

Tomson

P.S. I will report back after using it for a while

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Post by swede » Mon May 29, 2006 1:18 pm

Did quite a bit of work as consultant in the oil industry and understand indeed that a 0W40 is about the best we can get.

If you're really pushing your car hard (e.g. summer track day use), a 10W60 in summer is probably good too.

One thing that does puzzle me though. I am very often in Finland with one of my cars and it seems the locals advise to use 5W30 in winter.

The W30 is pretty low. My logic would be that the engines struggle to reach proper working temperature anyway and hence a W50 for instance would never get thin enough to be good.

Anyone any experience ?

Oilman ?

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Post by Dippy » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:37 pm

That still doesn't sound like good advice. If it's cold enough that the engine doesn't get hot enough to get an 0W40 to operating temperature, then you certainly need the cold-start oil to be as thin as possible, and 0W would make a big enough difference over 5W.
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oilman
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Post by oilman » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:33 pm

In the UK, the following cold crank viscosities are fine for winter 0w, 5w and 10w.

15w and above is fine if the engine is warmed properly.

The lower the number the thinner the oil at cold which means better flow and lower wear rates as a consequence of lower friction when you turn the key.

5w is a good start viscosity for our climate all year round.

The second number, (sae 30, 40, 50 etc) denotes the viscosity of the oil at 100degC and whether it's a 0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40, 15w-40 etc will always be the same viscosity at 100degC bulk oil temperature.

The second number is in fact more important as this is the viscosity required by the OEM that suits the engine best. For example, if the Manufacturer recommends an sae 40 oil then it equates to 14cst at 100degC.

If you then go using an sae 60 you will be putting an oil in that is 24cst at 100degC which can cause an array of problems.

Friction, heat and wear
Poorer fuel economy
Less bhp at the wheels
Cavitation of the pump/starvation to the bearings

Unless there is a reason to use thicker oils (generally excessive oil temps) it can do more harm than good. Generally thinner oils are better as they mean the engine needs less energy to pump it and of course thinner oils dissapate heat better.

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Simon
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Post by Dippy » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:54 pm

My point is that advice was from locals in Finland, not the UK.
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H&R coilovers, AWE DTS, Porsche front brakes, Short-shifter, 18" RS4 replicas
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oilman
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Post by oilman » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:04 pm

Due to winter ambient temps in Finland they would have more requirement for 0w and 5w oils for better cold start performance than in the UK.

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Simon
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Post by swede » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:58 am

True. It's pretty clear why the need of using 0W. As I spend quite a bit of time there, my car has an engine heater like most locals. But still, when it's -30C or below, the engine cools down very quickly while you're at the supermarket and you're on a good coldstart again after one hour.

My puzzle is around the thickness when driving.

I have had issues with the car that while driving in Lapland at pretty low temperatures (-40C plus the wind of driving made for 'proper cooling' of the engine).

On a few occasions, it sounded as if the engine wasn't getting lubricated anymore. Pretty harsh engine noise, no real power anymore.

Still unsure what the issue was but I've had it a few times in the same conitions.

It's also been suggested the ECU might have got confused as it tries to decrease the boost with dropping air temperature (colder air being more dense, it tries to avoid too high boost). Pure speculation though.

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Post by smurfbus » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:48 am

I would block the radiator with cardboard if temps got that cold. We have about -20C here and thats why I have my eberspaecher heater with remote in my S4. No cold starts and its a relief in these temps.

I have newer used 30grade and usually I've used 0-40mobil and last time I used motul 0-40. These engines develope leaks so easily that using grade 30 sounds like looking for trouble : )

Swede, did you vag-com the car afterwords. I bet there was a limp mode from strange readings on sensors.

BTW: Motul has a new lineup of oils. There was a thread on AW B7RS4 forum

Teutonic_Tamer
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Re: RE: Oil - The basics

Post by Teutonic_Tamer » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:43 am

Tomson wrote:This is the reply I received from Guy who works with Simon yesterday...

For the RS4 you will need an oil that meets the VW503.01 spec, these are longlife oils usually 0w-30 and not really designed with performance in mind.
Unless there is a typo, then that is not technically correct!

To understand the VW oil standards, you need to "break down" the numbers, either side of the decimal point. So, all petrol engine oils are classified as either 500, 501, 502, 503 or 504. (Diesel standards are 505, 506 and 507).

500 being an obsolete standard, of the lowest specification dinosoar oils, and 504 being the very latest high performance fully synthetic LongLife standard.

With specific regards to 503, this was the first LongLife standard for petrol engines. In its original spec of 503.00, this was desgnated as suitable for all petrol engines on LongLife servicing. However, the 503.01 was a supplementary specification standard. Generally, throughout all VAG oil standards (petrol and diesel), any .01 generally means an enhanced standard, usually for high performance engines (with or without turbos), or Pumpe Duse (high loads on camshafts) diesels.

Therefore, any oil which has the .01 will be a higher spec than the eqivalent .00
Tomson wrote:However the break from the norm is the Motul 8100 0w-40 which is an ester based performance oil that meets the VW503.01 spec, this would be my choice.
This would back-up my explanation above.
Sean - Independent Motor Vehicle Tech (ret'd)
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'06/7 VW Golf Mk5 GTI 2.0T FSI DSG 5dr
'03 Audi B6 S4 4.2 V8 6sp man (gone)

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RE: Re: RE: Oil - The basics

Post by oilman » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:46 am

I believe it is a typo.

As far as we are aware the 503.01 was designed for all VAG engines pushing 180+ bhp and therefore a peformance oil.

Regards
Simon
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Teutonic_Tamer
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Oil - The basics

Post by Teutonic_Tamer » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:50 pm

oilman wrote:I believe it is a typo.
OK, thanks!
oilman wrote:As far as we are aware the 503.01 was designed for all VAG engines pushing 180+ bhp and therefore a peformance oil.
VAG petrols, to be pedantic! :wink:

506 is the LongLife diesel standard - 506.00 for non PD, and 506.01 for PD.
Sean - Independent Motor Vehicle Tech (ret'd)
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'07 Audi B7 RS4 (with ceramic brakes) - WOW!
'06/7 VW Golf Mk5 GTI 2.0T FSI DSG 5dr
'03 Audi B6 S4 4.2 V8 6sp man (gone)

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zeke
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Post by zeke » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:17 pm

Mobil 1 has different grade of viscosity, my choice for hot weather climate is the SAE 5w-50 with Volkswagen standard of 505.00 API SL,SJ/CJ

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Re: Oil - The basics

Post by tsunamirs » Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:34 am

Hallo, I'm form Itlay and purchased from a little a fantastic RS4 B5 and I want to change the oil; in my RS2 I use currently Mobil1 5W50 peak life and is ok for staring and for hot temperatures. The Audi service would put on 5W30, but I think is too thin for this engine and I wish to put on my Mobil1 5W50. What do you think about it? :wink:
METALLO VELOCE

RS2 I5 B4 2,2 20v turbo avant 315HP
RS4 V6 B5 2,7 30v biturbo 380HP

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zeke
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Re: Oil - The basics

Post by zeke » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:05 pm

That´s the one I used for the past 12 years in the car and it´s great
RS4 B5 2002
RS4 B7 2008
RS6 C7 2018

tsunamirs
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Re: Oil - The basics

Post by tsunamirs » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:14 pm

What of the two? The 5W30 or the 5W50? What CAR do you have Put on?
METALLO VELOCE

RS2 I5 B4 2,2 20v turbo avant 315HP
RS4 V6 B5 2,7 30v biturbo 380HP

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