996 carrera 4 brakes

[TarmacTerrorist]

I've been offered a full set of 4 pot callipers (front and rear) off a 996 carrera 4. Asking price is £800. I presume these are a good price?

Will I be able to fit them to the rs4 and what else will I need? Brackets? rotors and bells etc? anyone any idea how much these will cost and were I would get them? Are these the same monoblocks as the Movits? etc ?

Thanks

Vinny.

[Carps]

I had a similar deal in the offing.
Getting hold of the bells and brackets is a little difficult as none of the big manufacturers will sell them on there own.

BG Developments (thanks to 'fade2grey [img]images/graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]) will make you a set, but need a corner from your car to take the necessary measurements for the design. Cost about £350 for brackets and bells.

You could also try Bira (thanks to 'fade2grey again [img]images/graemlins/thumb.gif[/img])

Good luck, and keep us posted on what route you take.

[fade2grey]

I wonder if there is anyone with an S4\RS4 down in Worcestershire who fancy's getting measured [img]images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Carps]

It wasn't just a case of taking your car to them for a measuring session, else I'd have done it [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] They actually wanted the suspension/axle assembly in their hands...

[fade2grey]

Oohh, that's not good. On the 'grale they just needed to borrow the car for a while to measure everything. If anyone sees bits destined for a skip they could be put to good use & sent down there then [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Carps]

Maybe I'll give them another call to clarify. I am sure that was what they wanted, but maybe they got out of bed the wrong side that day. I'll try them again tomorrow

[Andiroo]

Need rear legs on the RS4 also - quite hard to get as I found out [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Andiroo

[TarmacTerrorist]

I have sent Bira an email, looking on there web site they are willing to supply the brackets and bells seperately although they are a US based company (postage may be the crunch). I will post their response when I receive it back, we may possbly get a reduction if there are a couple of parties interested I will ask that also.

[TarmacTerrorist]

Been over this morning to check the fitment on the car. The callipers fit nicely over the standard disc (32x 360mm) but weren't deep enough to cover the entire width of the braking area so I am presuming that they are only designed for a rotor max of about 32x320mm. (about 10/12mm of disc area left showing from the bottom edge of the pad to the inner diameter of the rotor). Could possibly still use the rears as they didn't seem that much smaller than the fronts were other than the pistons, didn't think about it at the time to check, will do. Suppose the fronts would suit an S4 v. nicely with the correct brackets made up. btw I thought these were s/hand, there not there brand spanking new! complete with pads and wires dangling (red with white porsche logo), be quick guys! The man said he would keep an eye out for a set of the yellow callipers off a gt3 for me [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. In the mean time he has advised a change of fluid to SRF and a set of carbon pads?. He's having a word with his pad guy and will try and get me a set which fits and are suitable for both road and trackday use? Both will be in for O/Park if he can.

[watsonla]

I have a 996 C4. Looking to exchange to an RS4 now. But one of the things I have never been that impressed with is the braking on my C4. Is this really the best upgrade for your RS4, I feel sure from my experience you would better off looking for another option.
Regards Ant

[fade2grey]

Ive been thinking.. if the 996 tt/GT3 calipers will fit, so will the ferrari Brembo's. IMHO they aren't any better than the 996 brembo's but at least you could say you have F40 brakes fitted [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

A

[kcsun]

Hi Ant
Heard you was on the warpath in my local dealers [img]images/graemlins/sekret.gif[/img]

The standard brakes on a RS4 are perfectly OK for day to day use
if you are going to use it for trackdays though you will need to upgrade
Either to Movit 4 or 6 pot (using 18 or 19 inch rims) or
AP 6 pots (std 18" rims) Ap are at the moment trialling floating discs that will be available after crimbo

The rear brakes are OK as standard but from a looks point of view use Movit or the new AP kit when it is released

Hope this helps - how is the search progressing?

kc [img]images/graemlins/s4anogaro.gif[/img]

[Taipan]

To add my two cents :

- gor for a full (front and rear) upgrade if possible to keep the car properly balanced.

- make sure your brake fluid has been recently changed and checked -> when installing powerful brakes for track use, the heat generated by these is nowhere near the standard brakes and will put great strain on the fluid.
This heat will translate in reaching the boiling point quicker and when that happens : the whole braking system can be gone...
Simply adding race pads can do slightly the same as they'll generate higher temps on standard discs/calipers.
As an obsolete/corrupted fluid can easily lose 30-50°c of boiling point, the failing point can come very fast (lower tolerance vs higher heat generation).

- Steel-breaded hoses are recommended (ie due to the extra heat, the standard ones will inflate and your brake pressure will start fading -ie. previous point).
Although one could argue that progressive fading is probably safer than a sudden failure (ie brake fluid bursting out of the fluid tank due to excess pressure because there's no other safety/buffer zone in the system to handle it).

- Have your Audi dealer check the integrity of your master-cylinder before and after going for the upgrade.

To summarize, your braking system (as opposed to the "brakes") is to be seen as a combination of well-balanced components (discs, calipers, pads, hoses, master-cylinder, fluid, etc.).
If you start boosting one of them, make sure the rest can handle it.

Please note that I do not want to discourage you from improving your braking system but I just want to reinforce that a defective/corrupted system may carry a stiff penalty (as opposed to a defective acceleration/power output).

Eric

[fade2grey]

H Taipan, quick point worth mentioning, you mention upgrading the rear brakes at the same time, I was under the impression on most cars the rears only do 5% of the braking in normal conditions. As you upgrade the fronts, the weight will shift forward reducing the braking avalible to the rears without locking, presumably the S4 like most cars has a brake compensator to reduce the pressure to the rear brakes the harder the fronts are working so reduces the effectiveness of the rears even further. I would say that for most people the rears should be fine unless you are running full track suspension & full track brakes it should't be a problem.

A

[Taipan]

Of course, Fade2grey : I assume that people want to upgrade RS4 brakes not for driving under normal conditions but specifically because they do track days with repetitive intense braking in 15-30 minutes sessions.

Btw, I just had minutes ago a phone talk with the manager of Audi Quattro Driving Experience Center in France : he warns strongly against steel-braded hoses with upgraded track disks/calipers/pads:

-> The standard ones play a "fuse" role by expanding under strain.

Once they're steel-breaded, and the whole system is completely tight, the only fuse left is the master-cylinder (more precisely its internal joints).

He described how does a master-cylinder collapse : you brake hard and suddenly the pedal goes through the floor and shows no more resistance whatsoever -> all brakes are gone, end of story.

The cause is the internal joints who bend back. The braking will slightly returned as the system cools down but the weakness is there and will return inevitably.

The nasty part : there is NO way to check if a master-cylinder is defective/damaged.

Eric