Tuning, Dynos, Power Figures Moans etc....

[Tomson]

Indeed, enjoying this thread lots. Minhea, when are you next over would love to have a custom map on the RS and/or love to see what you thought of the REVO map that is currently on. Apparenttly Geoff (ex-AmD) rates the REVO code very highly.

My car jumped into limp mode last week whilst accelerating hard in third. Calmed it down a bit, exited limp mode and is was a rocket again. Not done anything like that since... All very odd.

[DaveP]

My car jumped into limp mode last week whilst accelerating hard in third. Calmed it down a bit, exited limp mode and is was a rocket again. Not done anything like that since... All very odd.

[PhilT]

My car jumped into limp mode last week whilst accelerating hard in third. Calmed it down a bit, exited limp mode and is was a rocket again. Not done anything like that since... All very odd.

That sounds odd. Are you sure it was limp mode? My first diagnosis would probably be the DVs... Are you still running those 'interesting' DVs?

[Paul-RS]

is limp mode a latching mode?

ie once hit needs a vagcom reset?

[DavidR]

Thomson - sounds like an accurate description of the ECU soft limp mode. It occurs mostly on my car if you lift the throttle partly whilst on boost. Mostly, if you accellerate hard in the next gear with limp mode, by the time you change up it has cleared. Sometimes it takes longer, and once I had to resort to VAGCOM. Most commonly though, I experience a sudden loss of power and then within 10 seconds, full power again.

Paul - not always, as described above.

I get Charge Pressure Exceeded - intermittent and occasionally Air Mass Flow - maximum exceeded - intermittent codes on VAGCOM, but I've only got stuck in limp mode once requiring the codes to be cleared before performance is restored.

No engine check light comes on though, which is unexpected. It would make more sense if Audi did what Porsche used to do and have an amber check light (for non serious errors) and a red checklight for those more pressing.

[Tomson]

Dash did light up - the engine shapped symbol flashed orange. Took the manual into the pub with me. Audi describes it as a fault with the Engine managment system - proceed directly to your stealer do not pass go etc etc.

MOT due on 28th, also next sevrice at 159K. Booked it into Dialynx this morning for the above, plus cambelt, general health and to find the fecking leak from the windscreen washer tubes. Goes in on the 29th.

Wife should be home in it in five, need to replace to valve caps some feckers stole last night and investigate a creak from the steering/wheels/brake area. Going for checking wheel nuts 1st.

Bloody car did 154K miles without fault in standard form - Somethings are left well alone !!!!. I can hear it parking up outside now - as can my neighbours. Mind you they should all be at work - lazy barstewards

[S2tuner]

hi David,

Regarding boost levels, don't you get some sort of loud whistling from the turbo by using 1.6 to 1.89 Bar at 3000 RPM???? About mean boost levels, 1.5 bar is not excessive but not that efficient either. it all depends at what RPMs you have it and what boost you have at peak power RPM....

Regarding power levels, I've never seen a car produce power with that much boost, if you look at the compressor map and plot those boost levels vs. engine flow, you'll find out how low the efficiency of the turbo is....


Regarding the Leon Cupra's, I have no clue. Interestingly a Leon Cupra R 210HP with a stock 225 chip in the ECU would only make 225HP/280Nm (factory rated figures for the BAM engine), whereas the BAM with its original chip will make 240-243HP/ and always 310Nm of torque. I have checked ETKA for hours for differences between AMK and BAM engines, there is NONE. The only difference that there is on a Cupra R AMK and a Cupra R BAM is the exhaust and cats, but the Cupra R I'm talking about (it did 214HP/270Nm on its stock chip) had a Seat Sport WRC or something complete exhaust system, with a race cat and no mufflers....


So why they make so different power, I don't know. It all comes down to what I've said again, every engine is different and every engine requires specific tuning. For me, as a perfectionist, at least it does.


HTH,


Mihnea

IMHO there's not much point in going much above 1.45 bar on an S3, as the turbo is already not working very efficiently anymore. power and torque are all a matter of balance and compromise. If you run 1.6Bar at low revs, you'll get loads of torque, but at the detriment of power at the top end, simply because by the time the engine has reached 5500-6000 RPM, the intake air is so hot that you can't make much over 240HP.

Interesting points, but ones that haven't quite worked out practically on my car.

On the same dyno, on the same day my car will make 265bhp (average) and 280lbft (average) running at 1.5bar mean. If I modify the boost to peak at 1.89bar and mean 1.6 then I get 275bhp and 330lbft (again the average of 3 runs)

The torque figure is accounted for by altering the N75 acutation, giving the 1.89bar peak figure at 3000rpm, and therefore making good torque, but holding a higher boost up past 5000rpm also yields a power advantage...

Mihnea, I spoke with you briefly at Star a few weeks ago at the RR, but can you confirm the mean and peak figures for your S3 maps? Can you comment on why the Leon Cupra Rs are getting apparently better figures (270-275bhp) at 1.45bar when compared with the S3s?

Thanks.

[DuncS3]

If WHP is accurate, ie not subject to any calculations/corrections can someone advise me from the below situation - which car is more powerful? I expect they are the same?

Example, 2 S3s for example, same wheels, same suspension etc:

Car A makes 180 whp
Car B makes 180 whp

but after drag losses and calculations

Car A makes 250 bhp
Car B makes 265 bhp

Dunc

[DuncS3]

Actually if WHP is not always accurate then the above scenario is not valid. Perhaps WHP is valid for a best means of before and after figures?

Dunc

[Ryan_s3]

Interesting stuff, i good tuner friend of mine had a look at the k04 compressor map and told me that it was only really efficient to 1.1 bar after that it's a flame thrower,explains why mark said he made more power a 1.3 bar that 1.5 bar(also why i can make the same bhp at 1 bar). Your gaining torque and puting alot of stress on the engine at 1.5bar.davidr are you running glenn's old car?

[DavidR]

hi David,

Regarding boost levels, don't you get some sort of loud whistling from the turbo by using 1.6 to 1.89 Bar at 3000 RPM????

It does, yes, it is very loud...

Regarding power levels, I've never seen a car produce power with that much boost, if you look at the compressor map and plot those boost levels vs. engine flow, you'll find out how low the efficiency of the turbo is....

I appreciate your experience and time to respond, but I have attached a dyno plot from my car... 274.5bhp and 332 lb/ft. I have 3 plots from different runs.

Any thoughts?

Also, if you think that my car is running into the inefficient range, would there be a benefit from running one of your maps?

Thanks

[DavidR]

Here's the plot -

[Ryan_s3]

Doesn't the bam engine has electrical vvt rather than the amk/apy which has mechanical vvt?

[S2tuner]

Doesn't the bam engine has electrical vvt rather than the amk/apy which has mechanical vvt?

APY has no VVT (at least not ECU controlled AFAIK), the AMK has the same ECU-controlled VVT as the BAM....

Cheers,

Mihnea

[S2tuner]

hi David,

Regarding boost levels, don't you get some sort of loud whistling from the turbo by using 1.6 to 1.89 Bar at 3000 RPM????

It does, yes, it is very loud...

I wouldn't laugh for this IMO....but rather cry!!!

the whistling is called "compressor surge", which physically means that the turbo is trying to fill the engine with air that the engine can't breathe. Very bad in terms of efficiency and it DOES put a lot of stress on the turbo. I can't tune a car so it surges. It makes no sense, surging is something that no turbo should be allowed to do, and it is anti-mechanical, no matter if the car actually makes LOADS more power than with lower boost and no surging.

I appreciate your experience and time to respond, but I have attached a dyno plot from my car... 274.5bhp and 332 lb/ft. I have 3 plots from different runs.

Any thoughts?

Also, if you think that my car is running into the inefficient range, would there be a benefit from running one of your maps?

Thanks

Hmm, I don't know what to say actually.... but the boost levels you're talking about are definitely not boost levels I'd be considering, even for someone willing to replace his turbo in the next couple of weeks...

As to if there would be a benefit from running one of my maps, I don't know actually... you might be disappointed as you might be very happy...
Either way, that map will have to be a custom map anyway....


Just my thoughts again,


Mihnea