Can you fit a single rs6 turbo to a s3?

[Bushy]

I thought AMD had been havibg issues with Turbo Dynamics??? (to the extent
they are buying things from Jabbasport)

not that i am aware, mine are being done by TD

and yes Dunc it does need a remap

[Dippy]

get turbo dynamics to make a hybrid version for your car Nice

So tell us more about what this does/benefits?

Dunc

They will install a blue printed turbine wheel and uprated bearings so increasing gas flow and so improving boost delivery and power

I thought these turbos had an oil bearing. Do you know exactly what they do to uprate it?

[DuncS3]

yes tell us more - any idea of the cost if i had my K04 hybrid(ded)?

whats it worth in gains? 10 bhp?

Anyone know?

[s8n]

I rkn go APR Stage III - 375hp

[JonnyX]

I thought AMD had been havibg issues with Turbo Dynamics??? (to the extent
they are buying things from Jabbasport)

not that i am aware, mine are being done by TD

and yes Dunc it does need a remap

Hi Bushy,

Firstly, I am not meaning to stir things up. The information I have
comes from this thread:

http://www.uk-mkivs.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24525

I notice none of the reported problems are to do with Turbo Dynamics
work on the actual charger.

Can you post some more info on what you are having done as it does sound
interesting. What do you expect to get out of it?

btw, I emailed them about what they can do with K03's on the S4 and
they basically said not too bother as they are too small when running
standard maps.

Cheers,

Jon

[sitas3]

Splendid link Jon - some very interesting info in there. Small world isn't it?

So, who's off to Jabbasport now then??

[JonnyX]

Splendid link Jon - some very interesting info in there. Small world isn't it?

So, who's off to Jabbasport now then??

Booked in for April 13th for a remap - I have a standard S4
and I don't think anyone on here has been to Jabbasport yet (with
an S4). They reckon 340bhp on 98 ron which I think is about 30bhp
over whats realistic. We shall see.

Cheers,

Jon

[DuncS3]

good to see someone with a different remap - let us know how it goes

Dunc

[Ryan_s3]

Heard a few reports of reliabilty issues with turbo dynamics hybrids.Also would steer clear of turbo force aswell.My friend works at the place that rebuilds wrc turbos and the current uk rally champions and he told me that the k04 and k03 are not inherently strong turbos (modding them would just throw them over the edge).Personally if your going to upgrade go for a gt series garratt.I was just curious to see if the rs version of the k04 had any upgrades.regards Ryan

[Bushy]

OK so as far as I can tell the story with the manifolds from AMD is that they were using one they had deveoped with Turbo Technics and even Keith at Dialynx had an input, and it was cast in Greece, the manifold was proven to not be very good as the material expanded and contracted too much potentially casuing the turbo to become unbolted

As Jabba had a better solution AMD decided to buy from them, the same as any business would, if you find a better product for the right money, use it!

As for modifying the K04 turbo the reasone I am doing this and several other people before me is to increase gas flow. Now I agree if you make a turbo zero tolerance then problems occur but that is not what I am doing

Basically a larger turbine wheel with a different pitch is installed with Mitsubishi oil bearings. The bearings are basically a cylinder with holes in, which has high pressure oil forced in and out through the holes so the turrbine wheel basically runs suspended on the oil. The new uprated bearings increase the oil flow so letting the turbine spin more freely

The bigger wheel and pitch change the characturistics of when and how much boost is produced

Alledged figures for the RS4 are 500-530bhp dependant on whether the heads are gas flowed and new manifolds are needed. My understanding is that the stanadard manifolds can only let enough gas through them to give up to 480-490bhp so the manifolds being changed increases it to around 550, i think, potentially

So with regards to the S3 to get more out you could use a hybrid turbo, new manifolds, new down pipe, new inlet sytem to get more gas flow in as well as out, modify the oil and water flows to keep the turbo better lubricated and cooled and you can expect 350bhp and 320-350lb ft of torque. the cost is around £5750 +VAT at AmD I believe

As for the problems with Turbo Dynamics hybrid K04, I personally havent heard of any, and to be honset it cannot be any more realiable or unreliable than a standard K04

As for replacing it with a Garrett, great but too much modification is neded on an RS4 to get a bigger housing in the space, hence this is the route AMD, MTM etc choose to take

I hope this helps my line of thought, but whether I am correct or not please feel free to comment as this is my understanding

And just for the record I am only going down this route because I have been forced to rebuild cylinder heads and new turbos due to a problem, but that is another story. Whilst the engine was out I though I may as well get these things done

Cheers

Bushy

[JonnyX]

Bushy,

Check this out:

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1551360.phtml

Looks pretty interesting?

[Dippy]

Splendid link Jon - some very interesting info in there. Small world isn't it?

So, who's off to Jabbasport now then??

Booked in for April 13th for a remap - I have a standard S4
and I don't think anyone on here has been to Jabbasport yet (with
an S4). They reckon 340bhp on 98 ron which I think is about 30bhp
over whats realistic. We shall see.

Cheers,

Jon

Jon,

I'm not sure what your background is so I hope you take my post as simple advice which you can take or ignore at your discretion. I have two points to make:

1) Peak BHP is a very poor measure of overall performance
2) ECU mapping is a compromise between performance, fuel efficiency, emissions, and reliability. Remapping for increased performance will always be to the detriment of the other three.

As I'm sure you are aware, power is simple as function of torque and revs. Take a look at a performance NA engine. It's peak power is around the redline because torque is usually flat to the redline too. But take a look at a turbocharged engine and you'll see that peak power is at less than the redline and it always tails off at least somewhat at high revs.

Why is this? Well it's because of the maximum gas flow rate of the turbo. The size of the turbo is usually limited to keep lag down to a reasonable level and avoid surge. The downside is that at some point it will run out of puff.

Now think about what a turbo does (spins VERY fast at hot temperatures) and it won't surprise you to learn that it has a limited life. Like all mechanical devices, the more it is stressed, the shorter its typical lifespan. So remembering what I stated about an ECU map being a compromise, part of the reason why the stock S4 ECU limits boost to 0.8 bar so that peak power is 275 bhp, is to allow the turbos a reasonable lifespan.

So the ultimate question, and the point of my post, is what compromise is taken when the ECU is remapped? This is the question you should ask yourself (or preferably the tuner, although it may be difficult to get a straight answer). I have no doubt that the S4 ECU can be remapped to produce 1.3 continuous bar up to the readline with a result that peak power will measure in the high 300s. But how long do you think the turbos would last?

I have had detailed technical conversations with people at AmD, APR and Revo. I have also looked at the work of S4 tuners in the US. It is pretty clear to me that based on sound engineering judgement, a reasonable approach to a stage 1 S4 tune will produce around 300-320bhp depending on the individual engine. This is what most of them offer.

Assuming that the Jabbasport tune is only stage 1, if they claim 340 bhp peak, it is indeed 30 bhp higher than the typical competition as you say yourself. There is no magic there - they are just keeping the demanded boost a bit higher at higher revs. Make no mistake - this will be at the expense of reliability.

Now I am NOT saying that therefore the Jabbasport tune is wrong, just that they have chosen a different compromise to most other tuners. You pay your money and make your choice. It's just important that you know the downsides as well as the benefits.

[JonnyX]

Dippy,

I take it that post wasn't actually meant to be condescending?

Before the S4 I had a turbocharged Golf. I know pretty well how a turbocharger works and how it
works with respect to engine tuning. I know that S4 K03's are highly likely to fail standard let alone
chipped and kind of expect this to happen at some stage anyway (btw, there are a couple of spares on
Ebay for £150 at the moment if anyones interested - cylinder heads too).

I will make sure to get all the information from Mike when I am there - the advantage of Jabbasport is
I can TELL him what I want from the remap and balls out power is NOT what I am after. Punchier mid-range
and better fuel economy off boost to name a couple of things. Theres no way I am giving AMD any more of
my money - the emperor will be buying his new clothes from an alternative vendor

[Dippy]

Dippy,

I take it that post wasn't actually meant to be condescending?

Of course not - and I had thought that my first sentence would have made that clear. It's just that your comment about Jabba getting 340 from a stage 1 came across as another punter being lured by peak power figures...

[Bushy]

Bushy,

Check this out:

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1551360.phtml

Looks pretty interesting?

Looks like exactly what Turbo Dynamics offer

Presumably that is why they uprate the bearings too!

The guy there reckons a turbo should last as long as the engine, the only reason for turbo failure is foreign objects hitting the balde or "in the System"

Interesting

Cheers

Bushy