AMDvREVOvMTM

[Paul-RS]

apr are doing serial tuning, as will amd shortly for us.

[chris22]

what is serial tuning and what does on the fly mean??? [img]images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
Bass [img]images/graemlins/s3addict.gif[/img]

[Dippy]

Serial tuning means reprogramming the ECU via the diagnostic port. In real terms they will just sit on the back seat and connect a laptop to the port via a lead. Minutes later and your ECU is remapped.

On the fly refers to making changes 'there and then' without having to stop and do other things before the changes can be made. I'm not sure of the context, but consider chipping vs serial tuning. Chipping is so called because usually an electronic component called a 'chip' had to be removed from the ECU, reprogrammed and replaced, or maybe another chip had to be added to the ECU. This was usually a very manual job and took a fair bit of time. However with serial tuning the ECU can be reprogrammed in-situ, and possibly even with the car still running, i.e. on a rolling road (but I'm not sure about that). This would mean that changes can be made 'on the fly'. However some forms of chipping allow on the fly changes to be made once the initial install has been done.

[Golich]

all they have to do to find out if its been mtm'd or amd'd is to remove the ecu and look, or am i missing the plot here? thats why the revo re-map looks so inviting.. there's nothing to look at!! no mangled screw heads or obvious tampering signs, and most of all, no piggy back chip..

I need to get to the bottom of this as one of the pros with going with an AMD chip was that in theory the dealerships couldn't tell if it was a modified chip. I suspect what was meant was they wouldn't know by simply plugging the VAG diagnostics unit in.

I understand the whole AMD/MTM type remap as Dippy explains it i.e. they re-solder a new chip into the car. It is this part that worries me and I suspect that's how the insurance companies/dealerships can tell if it's been tampered with. I'd be very suprised if they are actually reading the chips code which must state somethere to allow more boost.

Hhmm a call to AMD is in order or a post to Wando on Audisport.net

[Paul-RS]

Golich

as i understand it, "the old" AmD soldered chip uses yours or a new OEM chip, remapped and soldered back in place, BUT with an encription modules underneath, so the code cannot be stolen or reflashed. So in this case it could still be clearly seen.

[Dippy]

I think you can be fairly certain that any chipping will be easily detectable if an investigator opens up the ECU. ECUs which have been tuned by reflashing are more difficult but not impossible to detect.

So if you are intending to hide the fact that your car is remapped, the risks of being found out are massively lower with serial tuning compared to chipping, but are NOT zero. It's up to you if you take the risk.

Whilst Audi continue to rip off UK customers I am in full support of anyone who hides a remap top keep warranty. However I am in total disagreement with anyone who gets a remap and does not inform their insurance company.

[Paul-RS]

I think you can be fairly certain that any chipping will be easily detectable if an investigator opens up the ECU. ECUs which have been tuned by reflashing are more difficult but not impossible to detect.

So if you are intending to hide the fact that your car is remapped, the risks of being found out are massively lower with serial tuning compared to chipping, but are NOT zero. It's up to you if you take the risk.

Whilst Audi continue to rip off UK customers I am in full support of anyone who hides a remap top keep warranty. However I am in total disagreement with anyone who gets a remap and does not inform their insurance company.

Couldnt agree more. [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[S2tuner]

Serial tuning means reprogramming the ECU via the diagnostic port. In real terms they will just sit on the back seat and connect a laptop to the port via a lead. Minutes later and your ECU is remapped.

On the fly refers to making changes 'there and then' without having to stop and do other things before the changes can be made. I'm not sure of the context, but consider chipping vs serial tuning. Chipping is so called because usually an electronic component called a 'chip' had to be removed from the ECU, reprogrammed and replaced, or maybe another chip had to be added to the ECU. This was usually a very manual job and took a fair bit of time. However with serial tuning the ECU can be reprogrammed in-situ, and possibly even with the car still running, i.e. on a rolling road (but I'm not sure about that). This would mean that changes can be made 'on the fly'. However some forms of chipping allow on the fly changes to be made once the initial install has been done.

Serial programming can't be done in real time, this is because the K-line or CAN bus only allow you to read contents or flash the chip on the board, the data transfer rate doesn't allow you to have access to the memory in real time, or at least I'm not aware of it.

The only way to remap a car properly is on the fly, only this way can assure you won't break anything because of a slightly out of range mixture for instance...

HTH,


Mihnea

[S2tuner]

I think you can be fairly certain that any chipping will be easily detectable if an investigator opens up the ECU. ECUs which have been tuned by reflashing are more difficult but not impossible to detect.

So if you are intending to hide the fact that your car is remapped, the risks of being found out are massively lower with serial tuning compared to chipping, but are NOT zero. It's up to you if you take the risk.

Whilst Audi continue to rip off UK customers I am in full support of anyone who hides a remap top keep warranty. However I am in total disagreement with anyone who gets a remap and does not inform their insurance company.

There's no way a properly qualified Audi technician couldn't figure if the ECU is chipped or not, and it's very easy to do! Just measure mass air flow and boost and you're immediately set, the repair manuals contain the values one should be measuring, if the measured values are higher than that you're busted.

However, during a simple fault code reading procedure when your car is at the dealer's for an oil change, such a measurement is impossible, in order to do it you need to drive the car with the VAG diagnostic system on board.

Another problem is that if they find out your ECU isn't stock, they could just as well update its software with the VAS-5051, and then you'd have a stock car again... but this can be avoided if the original chip is replaced, thus by opening the ECU and soldering.

As far as insurances go, I don't think an insurance inspector or whatever the name could ever come to the conclusion that an ECU has been reprogrammed for a performance/HP upgrade, the Motronic ME7.x systems on S3s, S4s, RS4s are soooo tricky and it takes so much knowledge and money just to be able to tell if something has been modified in order to increase the power, that the guy who knows it won't work for insurances anymore but will rather become a chip tuner himself.

HTH,


Mihnea

[chris22]

I think you can be fairly certain that any chipping will be easily detectable if an investigator opens up the ECU. ECUs which have been tuned by reflashing are more difficult but not impossible to detect.

So if you are intending to hide the fact that your car is remapped, the risks of being found out are massively lower with serial tuning compared to chipping, but are NOT zero. It's up to you if you take the risk.

Whilst Audi continue to rip off UK customers I am in full support of anyone who hides a remap top keep warranty. However I am in total disagreement with anyone who gets a remap and does not inform their insurance company.

There's no way a properly qualified Audi technician couldn't figure if the ECU is chipped or not, and it's very easy to do! Just measure mass air flow and boost and you're immediately set, the repair manuals contain the values one should be measuring, if the measured values are higher than that you're busted.

However, during a simple fault code reading procedure when your car is at the dealer's for an oil change, such a measurement is impossible, in order to do it you need to drive the car with the VAG diagnostic system on board.

Another problem is that if they find out your ECU isn't stock, they could just as well update its software with the VAS-5051, and then you'd have a stock car again... but this can be avoided if the original chip is replaced, thus by opening the ECU and soldering.

As far as insurances go, I don't think an insurance inspector or whatever the name could ever come to the conclusion that an ECU has been reprogrammed for a performance/HP upgrade, the Motronic ME7.x systems on S3s, S4s, RS4s are soooo tricky and it takes so much knowledge and money just to be able to tell if something has been modified in order to increase the power, that the guy who knows it won't work for insurances anymore but will rather become a chip tuner himself.

HTH,


Mihnea

He he!! my Audi dealer cannot change brake disc's man.

[Golich]

As far as insurances go, I don't think an insurance inspector or whatever the name could ever come to the conclusion that an ECU has been reprogrammed for a performance/HP upgrade, the Motronic ME7.x systems on S3s, S4s, RS4s are soooo tricky and it takes so much knowledge and money just to be able to tell if something has been modified in order to increase the power, that the guy who knows it won't work for insurances anymore but will rather become a chip tuner himself.

Now that's interesting.

I'll be honest on the insurance point - I didn't inform my insurance of my chipped S4. It's my opinion that insurance companies are some of the biggest rip of corporations going. At least a large proportion of them. They're right up with Audi as far as I'm concerned but I can appreciate that others will hold a different opinion on this.


Ok the car is faster but I don't believe it results a marked increase in risk to warrant some of the outragous premiums some companies want in return given the already top premium charged. Which it is interetsing how some companies don't mind and others do - The ones that don't entertain would have you believe it's to reduce the premiums of all their other customers - What rubbish. I know from previous experience at least two comapnies are much the same price as all the other main stream ones.

I guess the real question is on whether an innocent 3rd party is involved.

Now correct me if I'm wrong (I guess that's a given [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) but I'm fairly certain there is an pot of money that insurers pay into that covers innocents - As with most things you probably have to fight damn hard for it.

As far as I'm concered the modifications didn't transform my standard car into some death on wheels or totaly uncontrolable machine - If in the unspeakable event I had written it off then I wouldn't expect the insurance company to give me an extra £1200 for the cost of the mods.

Having said that I'd pay an extra 10% or so on the premium but some cheeky gits wanted more than it was to insure an RS4.. Go figure [img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Pulling on the flack jacket... [img]images/graemlins/scared.gif[/img]

[RobK]

Having said that I'd pay an extra 10% or so on the premium but some cheeky gits wanted more than it was to insure an RS4.. Go figure

True, my insurance went down when I went from a modified S4 to an RS4. That was even taking into account the £25k accident they'd just forked out for!

[Scotty]

There's no way a properly qualified Audi technician couldn't figure if the ECU is chipped or not, and it's very easy to do! Just measure mass air flow and boost and you're immediately set, the repair manuals contain the values one should be measuring, if the measured values are higher than that you're busted.

But they will only look if you give them cause to. I have the chip swap, APR selectable program chip. When the car goes in it's always in standard mode.

In reality this is because I don't want some technician enjoying himself too much with my car. I have declared it to the insurance company and the car is out of warranty so no real need to hide it. But they'd never know - they don't open every ECU just for the sake of it.

p.s. I'm not posting this to encourage deciept but just to point out that it's quite easy to do if you want to. [img]images/graemlins/spineyes.gif[/img]

[david7m]

I have my APR switchable to help reduce wear when in traffic etc. by turning it back to standard mode.

[PhilT]

Having said that I'd pay an extra 10% or so on the premium but some cheeky gits wanted more than it was to insure an RS4.. Go figure

True, my insurance went down when I went from a modified S4 to an RS4. That was even taking into account the £25k accident they'd just forked out for!

Likewise... Brand New RS4 cost less to insure than my 335bhp S2.