RS246.com Forum :: The World's #1 Audi R, S and RS Enthusiast Community

Hello all

Having recently sold my 911 Clubsport, looking for potential replacements, and the RS2 seems to fit the bill. From what i've gleaned from this website, I understand the following to be true:

Timing belt - recommended 40-45k miles, approx £250
Top mounts - at 40k miles, cost?
gearbox - CRB box preferred, any problems?
Oil pressure - hot ~2bar, cold ~5bar
Service schedule - no details on this, approx costs appreciated
Options list - sticker in rear bootspace and in owners manual, correct?

There's couple of polar silver ones on autotrader at present, one for 13950, the other for 16500. Apologies if these are owners on this board, but whats the consensus on these cars? Look to be top dollar, but worth it??

any thoughts/tips etc would be very much appreciated

Cheers

Shirish

The timing belt should cost a bit more(if done by a garage) just because you do other things with it - water pump, tensioner, thermostat, some water hoses, crank pulley etc.

Top mounts should be replaced more often as they stock ones do not last long.

Later gearboxes are better

They are worth it for the exculsivity - and they are still a very fast car.

They will need lots of tlc - too many are not looked after properly. Just a main dealer service history will mean they are not running correctly - I see that with every RS2/S2/S4/etc that comes through our workshop. Whatever one you buy get a health check (then all the rubber vacuum hoses replaced and a set of samcos then the remap - it makes a huge difference)

HTH

Hi Shirish,

The £13950 car has been discussed over on S2forum.com, where you'll also find lots of knowledgable people (Doug_S2, the poster above, being a very significant one of them!). To summarise, the car was sold about 6 weeks or so ago on eBay for 10grand by a family that had owned it for several years (7 or 8 i think) and had always had it serviced under warranty at Audi maindealers. Incidentally, Doug is absolutely right in his assertion that RS2s that are only seen by main dealers tend to have problems. Unless the chief mechanic happens to have been at that Audi garage for a long time and has serviced that car since new or nearly new, the chances of finding a knowledgable mechanic (in fact, even someone who knows what an S2 or RS2 is!!!) at an Audi garage are VERY remote. So how can they service it?

Anyway, back to the RS2..... as i said, it was sold on eBay for 10 grand with the description that it was not in concours condition (and from accounts from others on S2forum it sounds like it needed some work doing). It then miraculously appeared on Autotrader about a week later being advertised as a trade sale at 15 grand and described as immaculate or perfect or untouched (or something like that). after a week or so the price was dropped to 13,950, where it has sat for a 4 weeks or so now. Its still about 4 grand more than the car went for on eBay, and the differences in description between the eBay advert and the Autotrader advert would make me certainly look at the car quite carefully. that is not to say that its not a great car, though - it could be a beaut. But i do think its over-priced for the current market, personally.

good luck, and take your time!

Tim

ok let me give you my advice as well:

1)true about the timing belt.if you have the knowledge to deassemple the front bumper and reasseble it probably a tad less as this is something the garage will have to do anyway

2)top mounts try to find the blue ones that are reenforced(vagparts.com)

3)CRB gearbox is the reenforced actually.The CGR is the one that has the weak 1st gear which was used on the S2.The CRB is the one used on RS2 from 95--->

4)True about the oil pressure but not entirely.I contacted a German mechanic about this and he told me that on hot idle pressure should never drop below 1bar.As manual states if pressure drops below 1.8 you should check the car out,but that statement goes for when driving the car,not idle.He told me that the crucial point is for the pressure never to drop below 2bar at 2000rpm.My RS2 for example,has 1.3bar on idle i use castrol RS 10W60 as recommended by most,i have 3.5-4bar on 2000rpm and not a drop of burnt oil,so im normal!

5)check http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/RS2 ... =232547997 on the documents area there is a sheet that has all the service details,what to check and what to do on kms (or miles) everytime.Basically you check the oil every week,change oil+filter every 150000kms(or less depending on driving),timing belts every 60000kms,and plenty of visual checks all the time in order to see what is needed.

Other than that,handbrake doesnt hold the car on slopes,even if newly serviced(as mine),if there is a turbo gauge on full bost it goes to 1.4bar on 3d,4th,5th,clutch and flywheel replacement usually changed around 180-200kms again depending on driving.Big red brake upgrade is a big+++(322x32 993GT2brakes front and 299x32 rear),best pads IMO are the textars.

this is what i have found from driving my RS2 for the past 4months!
cheers!

This is all great stuff chaps, cheers!

Thanks Flossy for the heads-up on the 13950 car! You say overpriced, whats a generic price on a good example at the moment?

Any opinions on the 16.5k car - i presume this is way overpriced? There is a RS blue one on Pistonheads at a similar price, not sure if still for sale. Quite a differencein price then.

Was going to ask about routine servicing - what kind of yearly costs can I expect. I managed to spend 7.7k on the Porker in 2 years, not sure how exactly but the bills don't lie - what can i expect with the RS2?

Engine rebuilds...how much and after what kind of mileages?
Turbo's - how much for replacements?
Inspections - I was looking to employ http://www.classiccarinspections.com - not specialised, but seem to do a thorough job. Does an AA inspection really allow you to claim from them if they miss something during an inspection?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to arm myself with as much info as possible!
Cheers

Shirish

Space ship mileage should not put you off providing it has relevant expenditure.I am on my second RS now. My first had 155 thou/k miles> I sold it when it had 177k on it.I spoke to the current owner a couple of months ago and informed me he has had not a lot go wrong with it and its now in the mid 190's. It had an incident around 170 odd k miles wher I ended up having a top end rebuild and a turbo overhaul, but even this only set me back £2k. Incidentally that work was carried out by a Porsche mechanic I know who works for himself, but had worked for a Porsche main dealer for 30 odd years - he still actually gets "subbed in" by a couple of known independant garages when staff are on holiday etc.....

Top mounts can get eaten up depending on how hard the car is driven, or if roads are poor.
Later gearboxes are stonger - BTW my previous RS was still on the original clutch at 160 k miles, no history of a previous change - so unless it is seriously abused somehow they last well......

Brakes do need keeping on top off. they perform well - but as I guess you already know - the cost of Porsche brake parts are not particularly cheap Some cars have had either a factory or aftermarket conversion where they are runnig bigger front calipers of a 993 turbo with 323 mm x-drilled discs as oppsed to 304 mm flat and 968 CS calipers. The rear upgrade would have x-drilled discs and harder pads.

Try and make sure the air-con is working fully. Can be expensive to repair if not. Other than that the cars are pretty reliable.
As Doug said, a set of new hoses is a worthwhile. Boost leaks from hoses,loose clamps,old DV's or Old WGFV come along now and again.

Go check out www.s2forum.com too. The £16.5 k one is owned by a member on that forum, and a hell of a lot of info is available on there.
Depending on where you are, and where a potential purchase may be someone may go and have a look at one with you.
Ideally, if possible, I would recommend getting the car inspected.If anywhere near to the Midlands/North then MRC would be a good place to go. Quattrosports/QST also offer this service if it needs to be down south.

I looked on and off recently and found prices from £10k up to ~£19k with mileages from 60k to 150k+
HTH

Hi shirish,

I've replied to your post on S2forum as well, in case you haevn't seen yet. Dean's post above is bang on. If well cared for, these cars go on forever. Clutches and turbos should last and last, but brakes can be expensive. If you can find one with the BigRed 993T upgrade already done (1400-2000 quid to do) then it'll save you a lot of money in the long run as these parts are cheaper. They also work better.

As i say in my S2forum post, pricing is hard of these cars. I'd say 12grand for a RHD 125K miler in good condition would sell. I'd be very surprised if that dealer gets 14K for it, especially since its been discussed here and elsewhere.

Tim/Dean

Many thanks, all good reading. More research required methinks.

Cheers

SP

Hi Shirish,

Research is a good plan. Definitely not a car to rush into buying (much as a 911 would be, i expect!) in my opinion. I am hoping to formulate a list of all the collected pearls of wisdom i have received from everyone and produce an add-on to the buyers guide in Evo. However, its gonna have to wait as i'm desperately trying to finish a thesis on sothing else at the moment!

best of luck!

Tim

As probably one of the few owners on here who has had an RS2 since new I can comment on the car's reliability and running costs over an extended period of time.
In terms of build quality and reliability, I'd rate the RS2 as one of the best cars I've ever had. I've never had any problems where the car has let me down in my ten years+ of ownership and running costs have been low for most items other than brakes. (more of that later)
Fuel consumption is reasonably steady at about 22/23mpg but will go down to 18mpg in heavy traffic. Long runs on motorway can see 28mpg.
Insurance costs are quite high as the car is a group 20 car even on full no claims mine still costs £550 per year with Norwich Union Direct.
I've run my car exclusively from new on Mobil 1 0W-40 (others say use the Motorsport version) at idle my oil pressure is about 1.8 bar and rises quickly to 4+bar when you rev the car. After the car has been stood for a while (2 weeks or so) then you do get a small amount of blue smoke on startup which quickly disappears.
As for the sweeping statements which others have made about Audi dealers being unable to service RS2s then I guess I must be lucky as mine has always being serviced by the supplying dealer although I do admit that it is always serviced by the workshop foreman who was a service technician when I bought the car.
Items I have had to replace over the years and 52K miles are :
- original brake discs corrode very badly - replaced with standard size Audi ones - very expensive at over £1000.
- cambelt changed at 30,000 miles (more of an age thing) cost about £400.
- airconditioning pipe corroded and leaked near to where the turbo is - a common problem - cost about £200 to sort out.
- three sets of tyres (original, set of SP9000 which were wrong size replaced free of charge with Bridgestone ones by dealer, latest tyres are Pirelli Neros)
- top mounts replaced at 48k miles car also fitted with Koni dampers front and rear together with new wishbones (top and bottom , front and rear) new upgraded big brake option (993T) fitted. Full 4 wheel alignment carried out. Rear koni dampers caused bump stop problems so they were replaced with OEM BOGE ones Cost over £4K (a large part of this cost is the big brake upgrade kit at £1500) Car now drives and feels like new car.
- new battery fitted at 6 years old £90 from Porsche dealer.

Normal lubrication services are about £120 - major inspection services are £400 or so. Car does use expensive Bosch sparkplugs which are expensive at Audi dealer prices - you can get then much cheaper from other sources. Car is very responsive to spark plugs changes.

All costs I've quoted are Audi main dealer costs so if you did these things at independents then you would save money.

Pretty good write-up and summary, however, how many diverter valves have you replaced, how many split hoses have been replaced and in what condition is the wastegate frequency valve on your car over 10 years? Ever had the fuel filter replaced and fuel pressure checked at full throttle and high revs?

In my experience (I have seen and tuned over 35 RS2s and over 200 S2s in the last 3 years), none of the cars that had been serviced by main dealers had ever had the intake checked for leaks, diverter valves or WGFVs replaced and most of them were running way below standard spec and performance. Even when the performance was ok-ish, there were always a number of specific problems that make cars perform close to ok but on a closer look, air-fuel mixture is off at WOT and the EGTs were going through the roof... and EGTs is definitely not something Audi dealers even have an idea what they mean.

Just a few random thoughts based on my experience tuning these cars....

Mihnea

scillyisles wrote:As probably one of the few owners on here who has had an RS2 since new I can comment on the car's reliability and running costs over an extended period of time.
In terms of build quality and reliability, I'd rate the RS2 as one of the best cars I've ever had. I've never had any problems where the car has let me down in my ten years+ of ownership and running costs have been low for most items other than brakes. (more of that later)
Fuel consumption is reasonably steady at about 22/23mpg but will go down to 18mpg in heavy traffic. Long runs on motorway can see 28mpg.
Insurance costs are quite high as the car is a group 20 car even on full no claims mine still costs £550 per year with Norwich Union Direct.
I've run my car exclusively from new on Mobil 1 0W-40 (others say use the Motorsport version) at idle my oil pressure is about 1.8 bar and rises quickly to 4+bar when you rev the car. After the car has been stood for a while (2 weeks or so) then you do get a small amount of blue smoke on startup which quickly disappears.
As for the sweeping statements which others have made about Audi dealers being unable to service RS2s then I guess I must be lucky as mine has always being serviced by the supplying dealer although I do admit that it is always serviced by the workshop foreman who was a service technician when I bought the car.
Items I have had to replace over the years and 52K miles are :
- original brake discs corrode very badly - replaced with standard size Audi ones - very expensive at over £1000.
- cambelt changed at 30,000 miles (more of an age thing) cost about £400.
- airconditioning pipe corroded and leaked near to where the turbo is - a common problem - cost about £200 to sort out.
- three sets of tyres (original, set of SP9000 which were wrong size replaced free of charge with Bridgestone ones by dealer, latest tyres are Pirelli Neros)
- top mounts replaced at 48k miles car also fitted with Koni dampers front and rear together with new wishbones (top and bottom , front and rear) new upgraded big brake option (993T) fitted. Full 4 wheel alignment carried out. Rear koni dampers caused bump stop problems so they were replaced with OEM BOGE ones Cost over £4K (a large part of this cost is the big brake upgrade kit at £1500) Car now drives and feels like new car.
- new battery fitted at 6 years old £90 from Porsche dealer.

Normal lubrication services are about £120 - major inspection services are £400 or so. Car does use expensive Bosch sparkplugs which are expensive at Audi dealer prices - you can get then much cheaper from other sources. Car is very responsive to spark plugs changes.

All costs I've quoted are Audi main dealer costs so if you did these things at independents then you would save money.

i believe my RS2 is in that state as well.But since i am in lack of time at the moment i cannot really do anything about.do you think that changing my DV valve,my WGFV and checking for leaks is something that could impove my car's performance substantially?my car is carrying an MTM chip but curnetly performing no more than 21psi with V-power racing fuel.(by the way i have sent MRC and Mihnea an email about my rs2 dont know if you got to reading it yet)

cheers and sorry to butt in!

Vassilis, I'll reply to your email ASAP!

Thanks,

Mihnea

Good points S2Tuner - forgot to mention that the fuel filter and any other filters have been replaced at intervals much less than Audi recommends. The car is run on Optimax only. On major services I also get individual printouts of what each cylinder is doing and what the Turbo pressures are at various revs. I'm quite fastidious about the condition and performance of my cars and I do check my hosework/piping religiously particularly on something like the RS2 aas the underbonnet temperatures are quite high.
I accept what you say about the cars you've seen and as I say mine is probably an exception in that it leads a relatively easy life. It's always difficult to compare outright performance unless you have another RS2 in known condition to compare against. However, when I compare my RS2 in performance terms to my M3 CSL or my E55 AMG then I'd say it's performing as one would expect.

nice garage Chris! with envy