Greetings...Has anyone done an LPG on their Rs4?

[KravMaga]

Hi, been looking round and nice forum!

Im on the market for a Company Vehicle and after seeing that Rs4 p*ss all over that M5 in Russia, I knew that if the opportunity came my way Id have to go for it! ...Please tell me you know that clip!http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44988
(Im hoping the plans for an Rs4 work out, otherwise it'll be an Audi 2.5Tdi)

Ive read many posts re: Mpg's and seems most of you ave between 18-21, which aint great....Now, I was previously looking at getting a Skyline which had a multi point duel fuel LPG conversion and could switch between gas & Optimax on the run...LPG being 40p and me not having much use for an estate sized boot, well, does this seem like a viable option and has anyone done it.....Though if the Gov decide to tax Lpg as well as everything else, then I gues the 2.5Tdi may have to do!.

I drive a gt4 and have thus made good friends with the local Shell garage. At least with an Rs4 one can justify the expense...Allllmost!

Cheers!
K

[Amosu]

NOOOOO! DON'T DO IT! That is sacrilege!

If you are concerned over the MPG, you really shouldn't be buying a performance car. I dread to think what the conversion would do to the engine...

If you have the kind of money to spend on an RS and want a car with reasonable performance but great fuel consumption, the new A4 diesel engines are very good. Pick up one of those

[wazza]

Oh dear........oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

[FrankC]

.....Thats cheered me right up!
Cheers fc

[JohnW]

Err, actually I don't think it is that bad an idea (read on though).

I considered buying a Range Rover, and the only way I could live with one on a daily basis is to go for LPG (curreently doing around 27k a year for work).

Fitting the LPG will have no effect at all on the performance of the engine when on petrol, and shouldn't affect it either when running on LPG if it has been metered correctly.
The Rover guys actually see smoother running and more power when on LPG !

The big bit could be trying to find someone who has done an Audi 2.7T engine before, because I wouldn't want someone using my car as the experiment while they learn, possibly lunching an engine. No thanks !

Cost wise a kit for a Rover costs about 1400 quid supply only, and then needs to be fitted,
checked over and set up (on these it is possible to fit the kit yourself and just get them to
check it and sign it off).

You also need to check out who sells LPG. There are more & more garages offering it but you will
need to check if there are any in your area.

So, imho while it is not a totally silly idea you need to find someone prepared to warranty the work (including any engine damage as a result of kit failure), and if possible someone who has done one before.

If your looking at economy you could do a lot worse than one of the 2.5t diesels. If you fancy a bmw the 330d is a cracking engine apparently.

[Amosu]

So, imho while it is not a totally silly idea you need to find someone prepared to warranty the work (including any engine damage as a result of kit failure), and if possible someone who has done one before.

OK. My wife's uncle has a Saab 9-5 (bought brand new last year) which he had converted to LPG (at a main dealer), due to him commuting 40K+ miles a year. Less than three months after the work, he started having problems with it. Lack of power, high consumption and all sorts. So he takes it back to the dealer.
Now unbeknown to him, the suppliers of the LPG unit are no longer in business - which he finds out to his horror when he takes the car back.
The seals are completely screwed on the LPG unit and it is not possible to repair, so needs a replacement unit. The only solution to this is to replace the entire thing - at which point they actually find out there is damage caused to the engine because of the faulty LPG unit.

Now, because the unit was supplied by a third party, the third party were responsible for the warranty on the LPG unit and all works associated with it. Because they are no longer trading, there is nobody to pay for the cost of replacement etc... Luckily, Saab agreed to foot the repair bill for the damage, but the cost of replacing hte LPG was all down to the uncle.

At ~£2300 a pop, that was a LOT of money. Gonna take him several years of driving to get it back.

I'm not going anywhere near LPG, especially seeing as the government are now saying they may start taxing it...



Oh - and one more thing

If your looking at economy you could do a lot worse than one of the 2.5t diesels. If you fancy a bmw the 330d is a cracking engine apparently

The 330d touring is a lovely car. I was very close to buying one until I picked up my S4 Avant

[S2tuner]

I have BTDT on a 1.8T engine running in the German VLN endurance race series in an Audi TT. The key was to run LPG so basically the car wouldn't have a turbo factor applied to its capacity, as otherwise it would have had to compete against M3s (ouch for a FWD 180HP lump).

Before I got to tune it, the company that installed the LPG system on the car tuned it, but they got it to run too lean, so basically it used to blow O2 sensors off because of too high combustion temps and EGTs.

We've spent 4 hours on a dyno with the car, adjusting every parameter both in the Motronic ME7.5 as well as in the LPG injection system, and we ended up with 235HP (all standard 180HP 1.8T and K03S turbo) and 350Nm of torque. The engine has never had any reliability problems in 7 races since I've mapped it, runs good EGTs on the track and now it finally also has traction from a Quaife front diff.

So, IMHO, LPG can be a good choice if the injection system is well engineered and if it is tuned right. The problem with LPG fitting companies is that they usually have a poor understanding of engine management systems and turbocharged engines performance, so they will usually tune the LPG ECU to run a little too lean at WOT, just because they've never heard of a Wideband O2 sensor or an EGT probe/gauge...

I might actually consider LPG on my S4... why not? LPG burns much cleaner than petrol and it's good for the environment. Plus, if it's not taxed yet, it's awesomely cheap and one can afford to thrash the car all day with running costs below those of a diesel car


HTH,

Mihnea

[JohnW]

amosu, sorry to hear that.

Most of the LPG kit is manufactured by an italian company. Obviously the fitting company can go out of business, but the parts should have still be warrantied.

Agreed about the 3rd party install invalidating warranty (one of the reasons I didn't buy the range rover in the end).

This is exactly why I said you need to find someone who has history of fitting these kits.

[KravMaga]

Thanks guys!

I wouldnt tar every LPG car with the same brush. LPG is 100Octane and IF the place installing, tuning and often tweaking it use a decent kit and know what they're doing then your laughing!

The modern multipoint LPG injection systems suffer no problems, save the environment, are cheaper and can give you extra BHP!...Its like saying, oh yeah, that guys car cant be anything special, its only an estate!

In retrospect, I think Id be happy for an S4 for the time being as the Rs4 as amazing as it is, is just too big!...After all, 29, no kids or dog...yet..Best not get ahead of myself

(thoughif the Gov decide to tax it, then Id be well and truely screwed!)

[simple1]

[quote="JohnW"]

I considered buying a Range Rover, and the only way I could live with one on a daily basis is to go for LPG (curreently doing around 27k a year for work).quote]

hehehe, mine is doing 17-18 mpg, and get nothing but the cheapest petrol I can find, my cousin has installed LPG in his, does a few miles more but is so gutless on gas he is about to remove the tank so he can put all the horse junk back in it...........

Other half drives a 330d touring, doing about 40 mpg on school runs and shopping, the best car we had was golf GT TDI 130 which did about 65 mpg, go get one of them...............

[911TT_STEVO]

Totally agree with S2tuner!!!

I have a couple of friends who have the conversion and they are more than happy with performance, 1 even said it was better performance!!!

I guess I would still be a little concerned doing an RS4, rather see someone with it first!!! (because of the cars general diagnostics, more than likely get warning lights coming from every direction, lol!)

[S2tuner]

If I can get a good system for a good price and if it is an user-programmable system, then I'll be more than happy to test this on my S4 when I have the RS4 engine with K04/K16s or straight K16s in it. jeez, 550+HP on LPG for so cheap, I'll have to be careful so I don't get caught on picture every day

Cheers,

mihnea

Totally agree with S2tuner!!!

I have a couple of friends who have the conversion and they are more than happy with performance, 1 even said it was better performance!!!

I guess I would still be a little concerned doing an RS4, rather see someone with it first!!! (because of the cars general diagnostics, more than likely get warning lights coming from every direction, lol!)

[KravMaga]

Check my sweet bad self!
My first post and already getting so many nods!!!

Now that I’m driving forward cheaper motoring for the performance motoring enthusiast, Ill have to leave my great ideas of S4-dom behind if I cant get the proper insurance!...(shivers down my spine!!!)

Seeing as my own cars have been on private classic insurance policies, I haven’t accumulated ANY no claims bonuses!.....Got a Quote on an S4..Ready for this?

THREE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED POUNDS!

KRISTE!.. I’m 29, never had a claim or accident and no convictions or points, yet, as raced a porker last week and we hit the anchors approaching the GATSO but it fired! So guess that'll make an interesting pic!

The insurance guys want consecutive evidence of no claims history. As I’ve been freelance and most company cars have been very intermittent, this simply isn’t possible.

Would this work? Register a company. Send a letter off from that Company name and say that "Mr x has been an employee of company x with a company car for the last 6 yrs and never made a claim or had an accident"

Bit naughty, but so is £3300 for car insurance!

Whatdya think!!!…

[jeffw]

I think that would be fraud and if they investigated when/if you had an accident you could find yourself uninsured......

[Amosu]

Umm that could also get you put in jail for up to 6 years as it is completely illegal.

Make sure you shop around for quotes on the insurance.

<-- 30, married with 2 kids + 4 years NCD. My quotes on my S4 Avant ranged from £690 (Elephant) to £2300 (Churchill). Ended up going with Privilege as they have a better package than Elephant for a very small amount more.

Try www.confused.com for a decent idea though