Valves- carboning up

[2manytoys]

Yes, freeway at 110kph the car sits at about 3000rpm. I do about 70% of my driving on a freeway.

[scaghead]

is it just me or does this bling blinger mosh keep slating different forum members.. bling are you noticing a performance issue with yours, have you done any timed runs etc..

Well scaghead - maybe your views on blingading are true.
Had a read of his previous posts and not even sure if its an S4 or and rs4 he has. (I've had both buy the way before he moans). Maybe its just his manner, He does seem a tad abrupt with his replies but then Arthur is doing his best to wind him up.............

Anyway, I'm Sure they'll keep it up, the last rant (although I must admit, I did read it all) lasted for 10 pages at the last count - this is only just beginning at 7 pages.

fair enough aidanjaye, so it looks like it may continue a little longer..unless something catches his eye on the s4 forum..

[pippyrips]

Ok, let me try to explain more. I obviously called Audi after I found that it wasn't cleaned.

The Workshop Forman said he saw the deposits before anything was done and it was VERY bad. One of the guys then cleaned the valves. The Workshop Forman then looked after three were cleaned (not cleaned like the one in the picture, but yes, good enough). The interesting thing is, about 3 were actually ok, the rest were bad (like the one in yuck).

If carbon is a result of something else, that "something else" is bad fuel according to Audi. It can't be, I use V-Power all the time, and this has happened in the last 10 months.

I'll report back on the difference once I get it back, hopefully tomorrow.



Mal.

the 3 clean valves could are likely to be down to them not sitting/closing fully due to deposit obstruction.

Flame is forced back from the cylinder head which licks around the valve and burns off the top surface of the oil/carbon - this has found to be the case with several cars over here which were compression tested before and after cleaning.

I agree with PE that this probably wasn't the only issue, your symptoms seem similar to MacRS which were finally attributed to a faulty airbox flap and crushed vacuum pipe.

That said, you shouldn't find 5 dirty valves and 3 clean, regardless of wehrer you believe in this issue or not - it's a very good sign of lack of compression which will result in lost power.

My car was only ever run on V-Power so the poor quality petrol arguement doesn't really stack up either.

[aidanjaye]

2manytoys;

Does your car see extended operation at 3000rpm or above?
By extended, I'm referring to the 20min that is referenced in the patent document.

Arthur,
As I mentioned, I didn't expect there to be an object in place to wipe the valves as they rotate.

With respect to the wiping of the valve seat as a natural consequence of the valve's rotation, the effects of the rotational wiping are minimal.

Is the wiping effect not created by a different angle of valve and valve seat - causing increasing flow of gases to do the wiping effect as the valve closes. The rotation of the valve has nowt to do with the wiping effect IMO. I could be wrong.

[aidanjaye]

Guys, my manifold come off again today. Audi said they cleaned it, and yes the car did feel better.

Here are some pictures


Close up with Snapon Camera


Yuck


Dirty then Clean!


I'm having them cleaned properly this time, and will let everyone know what the car feels like later (may be tomorrow though). Oh, forgot to say; the carbon is so bad the valves didn't seat.

PS: Please Arthur, don't respond saying it's fine, just move on... pleeeeese. The thread is becoming a mess (I'm not just talking about your posts either, I'm just saying you are very talented at getting people to bite back)

Seems strange why the valve stem is wet but the actual block seems relatively dry?? My first thought was leaking valve stem seals.

[spoonz]

OK, so this was done under warranty yes?

Can we get a clear handle on how much this would cost at a specialist to get done? Im sure one of the forum sponsors could make a few quid if they offered the service.

[2manytoys]

All my flaps are working perfectly. These were one of the first tests done. In fact, Audi only took the Intake off after they tried everything else. I was told that this was the instruction given to the dealer from Germany.

It's taking about 30 minutes per valve. I'm not sure what the hourly rates are over there, but I don't expect it's cheap.

To add more to this saga, it looks as though the pinging I experianced has caused piston damage (it's been pinging for probably 4 months (about 3000 miles) . We used the camera to look at all pistons. One is bad, with quite large pits, while other ones look quite ok. Once the car is back together I'll ask Audi to look at this too. In any case, this isn't good either.

[P_G]

So that is 30 mins per valve on a 8 cylinder car at GBP £100 per hour so near enough £2k at Audi for cleaning plus the dismantling, reassembly and parts.

Expensive thing to have done every year.

[spoonz]

Be interested to get a quote from a "specialist", £35 - £40 an hour? Make it less than 700 and much more attractive.

[spoonz]

DIY inspection tool anyone?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-ENDOSCOPE-BOR ... 500wt_1182

[pippyrips]

OK, so this was done under warranty yes?

Can we get a clear handle on how much this would cost at a specialist to get done? Im sure one of the forum sponsors could make a few quid if they offered the service.

1. very unlikely you will get a UK dealer to clean the manifold under warrenty

2. MRC will charge around 10 hours at a total cost of £600 and have already done so on a number of cars

[aidanjaye]

And I take it the job is out of scope for the DIYer?? Not had a look but has anyone considered it?

[pippyrips]

No - Caldy and few others have done it - it depends on how competent you are.

[GlynRS2]

If you want some idea of what is involved, have a look at this thread on 3.2 V6 FSI engine:
link

[spoonz]

after reading that Id happily pay some one £600 to do it. Id want before and after photos mind