Faulty Exhaust Manifold(Help please)

[springfield]

Gents,
A while ago I had this problem and have since sorted it,I am in the process of going to small claims court with VW/Audi quoting sales of goods act "fit for purpose" and of "suitable design" blah blah.

My problem is that that myself saying this is a known issue will not stand up in court what i need is FACTS.

I already have an independent engineers report stating that in his opinion that the design of the manifolds is at fault causing premature failiure,thier solicitor has already implied that this report could have been made up.(hold my coat!)

What i am asking from you guys is that anyone who has had this fault to p.m with details and an address(optional) or contact no so that it can be verified if so requred,you will not have to go to court,this is just to substantiate that the problem does exist and that my faulty manifolds is not a "one off"

Any other info/ideas appreciated.
Jim.

[KayGee]

Jim,
Jim,

You might want to do a search on AW, I believe there is a post on their already, if you can't find it a post to Audiworld as well, should bring you lots of replies.

Rgds

KayGee

[springfield]

kayGee.
Thanks will do.........money saved up for a family holiday had to pay for this lot..........................................pissed off.......... cue violins !

[JonnyX]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Surely there was a recall for the early MY exhaust manifolds?

As Kaygee said, I am positive there was in the States.

[springfield]

Heard that there was but would love to find out if this is so ? can anyone confirm this ? if there was nowt wrong with the originals why re-design them..................... explain that one to me Mr VW/Audi solictor.
I have worked as an engineer for 25 years and the original design is woeful to say the least,whoever give it the greenlight to go into production was a clown, my 3 year old could have done better it had Failiure written all over it .......Grumble Grumble Grumble!
Jim S4 Avant with some tricks ...............and proper manifolds !

[moose]

can you tell me what was the fault with your manifolds? the first release of the audi s4 had an exhaust manifold with a dual layer ,when cold this gave a slight rattling noise (like pinking) under acceleration, but it was no detriment to the power or driveability and not a defect.there was no official recall but cars under that were under warranty it was allowed to fit later model manifolds which didnt suffer from this, if you go to court you will lose, as this would be classed as an ongoing improvement to the model as with any manufacturer.

it would be like buying a 2003 pc with a pentium 3 and going to court because the p4 came out

i wish you luck

[Dippy]

Audi of America used to have their technical bulletins on a public website. That's where I saw the one about the turbo oil lines.

A couple of years back the site was closed (probably due to too many warranty claims), but someone put the TBs up somewhere else. If you can track it down (Audiworld would be a good start), then you might find one about the manifolds.

[springfield]

Moose,
Wrong i'm afraid ! the new manifold is exactly the same ie;dual layer but where the inner layer terminated and was held by 3 tiny spot welds which eventually give up to contraction and expansion.
If left the inner manifold is rattling about heated at temperatures of 900 c and bits start to come off them ! where do they go ?
First stop turbo, spinning upto 1000,000 rpm............. BANG.
Then remnants of turbo end up in the cats(ruining them) or your engine FACT!!

[quattro999]

ref to the manifold rattle problem,, as you say the inner layer slowly works loose with the high temp.. is the offending part right at the end the manifold ( turbo side ) where it meets up at trbo flange ,, can this then be cured by wleding part solid i.e right around opening ????? rather than replacing the existing part..

[Mc-BigE]

I tried pulling out my liner of my manifolds (see pictures in my gallery) put they wouldn't go any further than about 5 to 10mm , that's not to say that they wouldn't have worked their way out. Anyway as for re-welding, I wasn't going to trust that it wouldn't go again in the future. The most expensive part is taking the engine out (having said that the manifolds are £600ish +vat from vagparts , not cheap!)

best of luck with the case.

[springfield]

Eric,Quattro
The whole liner doesn't come out........ bits of it come awayand end up where they should not,i would imagine welding them and resurfacing may cure it,the new ones seem to have a solid flange now and the liner terminates at the neck with a full weld.

[snbS4]

When this happened on mine, AMD showed me the manifold and the collar/ring that had worked loose/come unwelded.
I looked into this and was told by Audi that as stated by Moose/Sprinfield et al above, the dealers were allowed to change them but no SB's were actually issued. Continuous improvement and not dangerous to the car's occupants was the excuse given.
My advice would be not to attempt the courts as you will end up giving your funds to a lawyer rather than towards the cost of repairing your car!
I took it as the opportunity to upgrade to K04's as a few have also done I suspect.
HTH Simon
K04's Tanoga H&R Samco full Milltek S4 B6 alloys RS4 calipers & drilled discs, AWE DTS RS4 ARB's

[springfield]

Cheers Simon,
I know that I am facing an uphill battle on this one.......still a shitty god awful design though !

[CliveH]

I disagree Moose.

Jim, I think your strongest legal argument will be that if you can demonstrate that the manifold was redesigned due to a fault with the original, as opposed to general improvements, then you have a clear case of unfit for purpose.

[Mik]

Actually this is pretty much what Audi told me a few years ago when I had the problem (this is supposed to affect pre facelift models only). Audi wanted to change the manifolds, but couldnt due to my car being out of warranty (over 3 years, but less than 60k miles). They also said they thought my original K03 turbos might have been damaged by debris from the manifold(s) and this enabled me to argue the case with Audi UK who reluctantly agreed to pay half the costs based on the fact that this was a 'voluntary' recall and that my car had done less than 60k miles - IIRC about 2k. for engine out, turbo and manifold swap - after MUCH discussion. In the end I decided not to bother with Audi and to get K04's.....

Mik

When this happened on mine, AMD showed me the manifold and the collar/ring that had worked loose/come unwelded.
I looked into this and was told by Audi that as stated by Moose/Sprinfield et al above, the dealers were allowed to change them but no SB's were actually issued. Continuous improvement and not dangerous to the car's occupants was the excuse given.
My advice would be not to attempt the courts as you will end up giving your funds to a lawyer rather than towards the cost of repairing your car!
I took it as the opportunity to upgrade to K04's as a few have also done I suspect.
HTH Simon
K04's Tanoga H&R Samco full Milltek S4 B6 alloys RS4 calipers & drilled discs, AWE DTS RS4 ARB's