map wihout C Clean

[MikeFish]

Why would anyone spend money getting more performance circa £1000 buy the time you get there and back to get maybe 20bhp when there car is restricted by circa 50 bhp?
Totally baffling to me

The MRC map is not about max power gains. It is about getting full torque in the lower gears and a better Sport mode. Neither of these add anything to the total power but permanently increase the enjoyment of driving the car, and a year later it will still drive the same. If you are after bragging rights about big numbers that won't last more than a few months then go for a carbon clean but to me it's a waste of money. Unfortunately, I might have go against all my advice and have mine done just before I sell my car as many people read these pages before buying a car and now come to expect a carbon clean (even if it was done 2 years ago!!!) even though it is of no lasting benefit.

[FaisalJ]

Agree with Mike that the MRC map is well worth it regardless of CC situation, the car is electric in sport mode because of the instant throttle response.

I think we can debate CC until the cows come home. The only hard facts are:

- Carbon buildup does meaningfully restrict power
- Cleaning is only going to restore that power temporarily
- It WILL build up again regardless of what you do
- Getting a proper clean is not cheap

The main reason I got mine done was actually to rule out anything else wrong with the car. Mine made just 365 PS on a different dyno, so it went to MRC to see if there was something seriously wrong, or perhaps a vac leak. They strongly suspected carbon buildup, took the manifold off to investigate and at that point I thought may as well continue and have a clean and see if that recovers the power. It did, and I'm very much enjoying the (temporarily) restored performance.

I will get a clean again at some point in future, as I view it almost as a service item. However, since I now have assurance that the motor is healthy, I may not actually pull the trigger on another clean for a while.

Returning to the OP; I get the impression it has been a really long time since a clean. Maybe the thing to do is have MRC health check the car on the dyno (£90 Ish I think) and assess from there.

[Covkiller]

I've had 2 carbon cleans at MRC on the same car and will have another early next year.

1. A full carbon clean with inlet manifold ported with all items left as standard, i.e., no secondary air, no flaps removed, etc.
2. A quick carbon clean as one of my knock sensors was kaput and they had to take the inlet manifold off anyhow. Whist off, the build up was no where near as much as in No1. but it still helped maintain the big BHP figures.

With a remap you will not get over 400BPH, I know as I have tried it on a healthy carboned up RS4.

If you have the time, money and inclination then do it.
If not don't.
Simple.

But good luck anyway and let us know what happens and please post some photographs.

[daveb77]

Cheers again for all the feedback gents.
Ill likely go local for cat delete pipes, then drive down for a health check and stg 2 map and home the same day... If the health check points to severe carbon build up ill sort this more local, against all judgement to do it at the one time... Well thats the plan. Really interested in the feel of the car post map though more than peak figures. Had a stg1 Evolve on my old M3 and the peak figures were tiny but the feel of the car through rev range was so fresh and alive feeling... Sport mode was like an on off switch as well, this is what i have in mind with the MRC Stg 2 post cat delete (primary only)...
Anyway, xmas and front discs in the way first, then a down pipe and travel plans i think in the new year...
Thanks again and i have posted pics before, just not posted much since so appear like a NooB : (
D

[JCviggen]

With a remap you will not get over 400BPH

On a stock exhaust or Milltek maybe not, but not all cars are equal.

What is certain is that a "normally" coked up B7 isn't losing 40-50hp to the carbon. 25 maybe but half of those will disappear again very quickly in between cleans. So we're talking fairly huge expenses to maintain a 10-15hp advantage. Given the total amount of horsepower out of this engine you're not actually going to feel 10 more or less with your butt dyno. If the facts were laid out this way I think many would decide it's not worth cleaning a car that is running well.

Mine's never been cleaned to my knowledge and with the addition of the JHM exhaust and tune it is certainly well past 400 MRC PS at the moment, doing 3-8K in 3rd gear in only 7.2 seconds and completely matching a 250kg lighter 430 bhp 991 GTS for in-gear acceleration.

[ChrisW]

When I bought my car in Oct last year it was missing that 'kick' at 5k rpm in third gear. I took it to Unit 20 and had a carbon clean with all the runners and vac system checked. When I got it back there as a huge improvement, the noticeable kick returned and the car just felt a lot quicker and more responsive. 10k miles later, and that kick is still there but at maybe 70%. Im thinking that a carbon clean is only really worth doing once, as JCViggen has said, you are spending a lot of money just to maintain a small bhp gain.

[FaisalJ]

With a remap you will not get over 400BPH

On a stock exhaust or Milltek maybe not, but not all cars are equal.

What is certain is that a "normally" coked up B7 isn't losing 40-50hp to the carbon. 25 maybe but half of those will disappear again very quickly in between cleans. So we're talking fairly huge expenses to maintain a 10-15hp advantage. Given the total amount of horsepower out of this engine you're not actually going to feel 10 more or less with your butt dyno. If the facts were laid out this way I think many would decide it's not worth cleaning a car that is running well.

Mine's never been cleaned to my knowledge and with the addition of the JHM exhaust and tune it is certainly well past 400 MRC PS at the moment, doing 3-8K in 3rd gear in only 7.2 seconds and completely matching a 250kg lighter 430 bhp 991 GTS for in-gear acceleration.

Mine was down 44 PS. 383 PS pre clean to 427 PS post

[JCviggen]

Then either your coking was severe or there was more going on than just the carbon.

[FaisalJ]

Then either your coking was severe or there was more going on than just the carbon.

It was cleaned a year ago by AMD (not all that well me thinks). There was a clogged breather pipe, but that was all.

I got the impression from MRC that I had a fairly typical loss from carbon buildup.

[alefustec]

Look this bullshit on cc's is boring - fact is if it's coked then the reality is that clean it but it will come back and fact, so at best temporary fix.

My opinion is that if it works for your schedule (and wallet ) then why not get the clean, BUT it will come back. What you can do is gut the pre cats add an induction kit and all is well. I'm mean, In reality who are you trying to impress? This is a FAST car by any measure and torque is the main factor, and these cars have torque......and sound.....and presence on the road.....and character......and awesomeness. Just stop worrying about carbon build up.

[marc1]

My current B7 had an AMD Carbon clean and remap c.12k miles before it went to MRC. It made 398bhp on the dyno. It then made 426bhp after an MRC map and deflapped manifold (also made an additional 30nm torque). Doug said the carbon since its last clean was minimal and a further clean might get me a further 10bhp tops.

My last B7 ran a stock map with AMD Carbon clean and was a very healthy car, it definitely made over 400bhp and quite happy sat with tuned B5 RS4's and an RS5.

Doug's suggestion to reduce the increase of carbon build up was to aim for 8k rpm each time it was driven.

Make sure everything else is sound and then look at the carbon cleaning.

[Harris.]

I'm reading all the posts and it's all aimed at BHP, surely a carbon clean helps look after the engine keeping it In good condition. Its the heart of the car at the end of the day.

What Is the correct figures

414 BHP and what's the standard torque figure?

[S4Player]

Personally think your mad going all that way to not have it all done properly

[daveb77]

Car is running poor figures 360 ish?!? carbon clean recommended no car leaks though! Don't have time planned in as previously discussed will need to do when I'm back home! Puncture on front near side though that is slowing is down : ( away to get repaired ( I hope) before mapping can begin!
Car feels so good as well prob to be expected!!!
D

[MikeFish]

A carboned engine alone won't give you 360ps surely.