map wihout C Clean

[daveb77]

I think MRC primary cat gutting and stage 2 map are on the cards for me first half of this year (long drive from Renfrew but will be worth it I’m sure). Anyway age old question regarding is it worth doing carbon clean as well? I’m not wanting my car to be down at MRC for more than one day and Ben has of course recommended that this is done as map with clean manifold may need tweaked if I were not to clean before map and then clean after, more local to my home etc…

Car has never been dyno’d so not sure on actual power, but to me its strong, usual kick after 5.5 ish etc as well. No noted vac leaks from my local garage etc…

I’ve read via search and of course come up with many conflicting opinions as the carbon will come back. I’m really seeking the improved drivability form cat gutting and map response over peak figures…

Anyway, any opinion or feedback form those that have mapped without cleaning would be useful?

Cheers

D

[ChrisW]

I'd get it CC'd, it'll be worth it. I'd also take issue spending all that money knowing it's still being robbed of a good 70hp.

[Harris.]

If I was coming all that way I'd book a hotel, have it cleaned why it's there.

[Covkiller]

A 100% decision for Carbon Clean. Presently, your car will pull 398PS if strong, CC and a Doug remap you'll get plus 430PS.
If I'm wrong I will show my arse in public


Also rule No. 1
Go for it

[JCviggen]

It's important to diagnose the level of carbon buildup first. There's "normal" and "excessive". Some cars don't seem to reach the excessive level easily. If it's doing decently well on the dyno you have to ask yourself what you're spending the money on if you get it cleaned. Of course the companies who offer the service will be inclined to prescribe it pretty lightly.

It WILL come back. And pretty swiftly too. So unless you're going to go through the whole thing every 10K-15K miles what you get is a temporary gain and a pretty dyno printout.

Of course it never hurts to get it done. I just think the real world benefits tend to be exaggerated and it's not so much a necessity as an optional treatment if you don't mind spending the money on a temporary improvement. Like a really expensive exterior wax.

[daveb77]

Folks,

Appreciate the feedback and again a good mixed bag of advice.

I’m not adverse to the cleaning, its just the time away etc at MRC. There are a few local (ish) places around my way that will do the clean and have a good rep for doing so. My question should really have been steered towards undertaking MRC mapping etc then cleaning at a later date? The map must be generic enough to accommodate a change in performance from a clean sometime post map if that makes sense and should not need tweaked every time this work is undertaken surely? Perhaps if its just the 1-3 gear delimit and enhanced sports mode response im after I should go local for APR or revo perhaps… But that’s a question for another post : )

Thanks again for the real life feedback…

D

[FaisalJ]

Blimey, that is a long drive!!

Have you thought about getting a local exhaust Shop to replace the precats entirely with straight pipe? Cleaner than gutting the precats, and better exhaust flow, and will also save some time at MRC.

I'd say if your car hasn't been carbon cleaned recently, you'll get more power out of the clean than the map. Definitely worth doing, just have to decide where to get it done.

If you can somehow make it work to leave the car with MRC for a couple of days, I think it's well worth having the clean and map done there. Anything else would be a compromise.

My car was cleaned a year ago at AMD, but was 380PS a couple of weeks ago when it went into MRC. A clean (and map tweak for change of intake & exhaust) later it was 427PS. I don't know how good a job AMD did with the clean, but I'll only go back to MRC when it needs cleaning next.

Which reminds me, I need to log airflow in a "clean" state, so I can compare and guesstimate when it needs cleaning again. Trying to redline it as often as possible to keep carbon at bay, sometimes just dipping the clutch and giving it a blip if there's no chance of actually driving to the redline.

[S4Player]

If it was me I'd have Willy at meercat do the exhaust. Then head down to Mrc so you are there for them opening, stay at the premier inn round the corner and collect the car the next day

[daveb77]

If it was me I'd have Willy at meercat do the exhaust. Then head down to Mrc so you are there for them opening, stay at the premier inn round the corner and collect the car the next day

Will likley be the way forward mate, thanks for the heads up... Your previouse method i take it?

D

[S4Player]

I know Willy really well he done all the exhaust work on my Gtr for me, plus other cars. Mrc looked after all my vag stuff for the last 8 years.

Yes I always stayed down made life so much easier for the sake of a £50 a room and the hotel only being round the corner, Banbury has a cinema etc as well.

[MikeFish]

It's important to diagnose the level of carbon buildup first. There's "normal" and "excessive". Some cars don't seem to reach the excessive level easily. If it's doing decently well on the dyno you have to ask yourself what you're spending the money on if you get it cleaned. Of course the companies who offer the service will be inclined to prescribe it pretty lightly.

It WILL come back. And pretty swiftly too. So unless you're going to go through the whole thing every 10K-15K miles what you get is a temporary gain and a pretty dyno printout.

Of course it never hurts to get it done. I just think the real world benefits tend to be exaggerated and it's not so much a necessity as an optional treatment if you don't mind spending the money on a temporary improvement. Like a really expensive exterior wax.

+1

I wouldn't bother with the clean unless your car was really suffering. Generally cars that are suffering are doing so due to vacuum issues which are solved as the engine is being put back together after a clean.

It is worth doing the remap even without the clean as you will benefit forever more.

With regards to the whole issue of having a remap or a map tune after a clean i think its a load of tosh. If it really makes a difference then do you really want the car mapped on a clean engine when in 6 months and the rest of your ownership it will be covered in carbon again? Yes you might get more of a gain in power from a clean but it is temporary and the gain from full torque in lower gears and better throttle response in sport mode are permanent and well worth doing. Gut pre cats and get a remap then spend your money making sure everythig else is in tip top condition eg new bushes etc.

Edited typos; sorry typed in a rush on the train.

[davers6]

Why would anyone spend money getting more performance circa £1000 buy the time you get there and back to get maybe 20bhp when there car is restricted by circa 50 bhp?
Totally baffling to me

[JCviggen]

Why would anyone spend money getting more performance circa £1000 buy the time you get there and back to get maybe 20bhp when there car is restricted by circa 50 bhp?
Totally baffling to me

You're right, makes a lot more sense to spend 1800 quid instead and then after 6 months be back in the same place as the guy who only spent a grand.

Exaggeration aside, I do see the point of a CC if severe buildup is suspected or simply for peace of mind. Particularly if you can do it yourself and not spend a fortune on a clean. Cleaning the inside of your engine is about as permanent as cleaning the outside of the car. The CC clean gains are often overstated (like here) and the only reason the illusion remains intact is that people don't go back to dyno their car again a few months after a "treatment". If they did, they'd find out that they lost some of the "gains" even before they got home to copy the feelgood dyno numbers into their signature.

[PetrolDave]

I'd get it CC'd, it'll be worth it. I'd also take issue spending all that money knowing it's still being robbed of a good 70hp.

Doug at MRC told me that CC costs at most 30bhp, but a vacuum leak costs 60bhp - so most well down on power cars need a vacuum leak fixing as the first priority and only then see what benefit might be got from CC, but slightly down on power cars would benefit from CC as the first step.

[FaisalJ]

If they did, they'd find out that they lost some of the "gains" even before they got home to copy the feelgood dyno numbers into their signature.

Ha, it's a fair cop.

Maybe the sig could incorporate a countdown back to 380 PS!