Take a Picture when Bored

[v8 omfg]

Daytona Greg, are you British, Scottish, Irish or Welsh? I only ask this, as it's a little difficult to read your responses, they're not straightforward and it feels a little like getting blood out of a stone. If English isn't your first language, then I understand. If it is, then this isn't meant to insult. However your posts read with an amount of negativit emotion, presumably due to fact you've had issues. Loads of people with B8 platform cars (RS4, RS5, S4, S5, etc) run spacers and don't have issues. Equally a good amount of people are lowered, either springs or coilovers. So the questions to you are of genuine interest. You've been to a chassis development centre after all, why not sure your experience rather than make people struggle to extract the information from you?

Genuinely confused by this.

Blood out of a stone? That is exactly how it has been on here!

I am British and type in English? Perhaps excuse my dyslexia? You didn't/wouldn't know so no offence taken, what is it that I have typed that doesn't make sense and ill try again !?

I do find this site hard to use from the phone, minimising to check etc proves difficult. I have typed a response twice and lost it?


My apologies if it appears difficult to extract information, it is not an intent, I was hoping to extract data from the people that have spacers and the vehicle lowered as to why the handling characteristics are altered so much and what the fix is?
Unfortunately I have only received info/data that simply states "I don't have any issues", so therefore nobody has had a reason to attempt a fix or they are happy with the change.
And it has now been pointed out that alignment is not "rocket science", granted, until you alter the vehicle and attempt to re-set it to stock, ill wait for someone to educate me with data that doesn't exist, I hope he is trying to find the data, I wouldn't want to think that he is typing about something he doesn't know!?

"You've been to a chassis development centre after all, why not sure your experience rather than make people struggle to extract the information from you?"
I've got dyslexia ^^^^^^ what does the above mean, I can assume and I'm ok with that.

I haven't got time to re-type what was lost, to summarise:
I've done 18k from new as stock, I think it gave me an idea of how the car handles. ( I do regular 500 mile round trips on a journey I've been doing for 20+ years)
Then I had the Akrapovic system, KW coilovers and 10mm H&R spacers fitted. (10mm hubcentric, all others listed for S4 and S5 H&R did not recommend to use)
I then did 5-6k with the spacers on and off, the last time 500 miles with, 500 miles without, I have no doubt the vehicle handles odd with them, the turning "law" is also adjusted obviously the track is now wider.
The vehicle has now been aligned 7 times (I am now slightly self educated, although I don't know what I'm typing about LOL)

In English: Lots of people quote no issues, that's great, some have had adjustable control arms fitted, again great, to "quote there are no handing changes" borders on the ridiculous! Those changes don't alter the car handling? Utter crap.

What effect do you think will be happening to the lower control arms?

Anyway, the corner weight balancing adjustments were very nominal, some coilover manufacturers suggest or advise to do this when the coil overs are fitted.
But it did highlight the handling issue at the front end that is within alignment adjustments, main issue is that one of the settings is not available from Audi as they are fixed points, until you alter the car......some of the reason that I have suggested an alignment data shot before the car is altered (That wasn't extracting blood from a stone?)

I would say that the camber returned to stock on the rear did help the drift effect, but didn't totally cure it.
The front handling issue has been corrected without using the spacers and I will never try them again or even dig them up from the hole I buried them in.

Its not meant to be difficult, I would just like the spacer and dropped users to educate me on fixes to return stock handling, because they have no issues!?
It would also be good for a spaced version to try and follow me for 250 miles where you would experience some of the negative effects that I did, ie on some bends and corners at limiter level or just below and see how long it takes for your balls to recede. Mine did with the spacers at probably 30-40mph lower than usual.

[v8 omfg]

i have H&R springs on my b8 and 034 arms are not cheap!!
Your the one coming on the forum asking for advice because your car drives like <beep>
And when you get some advice from people you just give them grief. You quite clearly don't know what your talking about.
So why are spacers ok on a b7 and not in a b8????

I'm struggling to see where the advice is?
Perhaps educate me further?
Do you think the B7 is the same as B8 all but body shape change?

[MK2Golf24v]

Its hardly groud breaking big news that Audi do not publish a castor figure for the suspension on these cars. And again, its not big news that it is very possible to get the camber within spec, but have different castor on each side, and castor outwith factory specs. So its a bit stupid trying to be smug about figures which are not published and to tell everyone to get the alignment data before doing anything.........

SPC (Who make the Eibach Control Arms) Acknowledge this on their documentation, and go as far as to recommend a setting of between 5 and 6 degrees.

Spacers WILL affect the handling, the front specifically because they alter the scrub radius of the steering. They will also have an effect on the DRC as you are increasing the lever the wheels have on the suspension. Whether this is really perceivable to the driver, will very much depend on how they drive, and the road surfaces and conditions.

I run spacers, absolutely no negative issues for the type of use my car gets. It also happens to look a lot better than standard too.

[v8 omfg]

The "experts" will clearly see from this what's occurred and changed, (its not rocket science!) it would be useful if any advice offered apparently, could be re posted!?

At first none of the alignment data was of interest, I will never need to know it!

After 7 times I now have half a clue!

[v8 omfg]

Its hardly groud breaking big news that Audi do not publish a castor figure for the suspension on these cars. And again, its not big news that it is very possible to get the camber within spec, but have different castor on each side, and castor outwith factory specs. So its a bit stupid trying to be smug about figures which are not published and to tell everyone to get the alignment data before doing anything.........

SPC (Who make the Eibach Control Arms) Acknowledge this on their documentation, and go as far as to recommend a setting of between 5 and 6 degrees.

Spacers WILL affect the handling, the front specifically because they alter the scrub radius of the steering. They will also have an effect on the DRC as you are increasing the lever the wheels have on the suspension. Whether this is really perceivable to the driver, will very much depend on how they drive, and the road surfaces and conditions.

I run spacers, absolutely no negative issues for the type of use my car gets. It also happens to look a lot better than standard too.

Andy thank you for an informative reply.
You are the only one to acknowledge or be aware of the caster settings not being available. (or type it, that info would have been very useful from the start!)
(its wasn't an attempt to be smug whatsoever I purely wanted to hear it from spacer users that believe there are no issues, without taking a data shot where would you get stock data to then apply 5-6 degree?)

You are also one of very few that acknowledge the change in handling characteristics, my compliments.

I persevered with the spacers based on the look, totally agree it looks better!

Can I ask what size spacers you are using and if your car is also dropped?

Cheers

[v8 omfg]

And yes Eibach arms are made in China for SPC!
Eibach box, labelled with SPC and stamped made in China!

[v8 omfg]

Its hardly groud breaking big news that Audi do not publish a castor figure for the suspension on these cars. And again, its not big news that it is very possible to get the camber within spec, but have different castor on each side, and castor outwith factory specs. So its a bit stupid trying to be smug about figures which are not published and to tell everyone to get the alignment data before doing anything.........

SPC (Who make the Eibach Control Arms) Acknowledge this on their documentation, and go as far as to recommend a setting of between 5 and 6 degrees.

Spacers WILL affect the handling, the front specifically because they alter the scrub radius of the steering. They will also have an effect on the DRC as you are increasing the lever the wheels have on the suspension. Whether this is really perceivable to the driver, will very much depend on how they drive, and the road surfaces and conditions.

I run spacers, absolutely no negative issues for the type of use my car gets. It also happens to look a lot better than standard too.

"Its hardly groud breaking big news that Audi do not publish a castor figure for the suspension on these cars"
To you maybe not, to me it was a surprise and would you believe your the only one to mention it!

[v8 omfg]

Spacers WILL affect the handling, the front specifically because they alter the scrub radius of the steering. They will also have an effect on the DRC as you are increasing the lever the wheels have on the suspension. Whether this is really perceivable to the driver, will very much depend on how they drive, and the road surfaces and conditions.

Reading this was like fresh air!

Thank you

[MK2Golf24v]

I run 8mm front and 10mm rear HR spacers.

Car is not lowered. Only reason it is not lowered is that i simply do not want to pay Audi to recalibrate all the assistance systems. A few on here say there is "no negative issues" but when the Audi workshop manuals specifically require re-calibration, i'd want it calibrated, and after having the car in for a re-aligment under warranty and speaking with the technician about the amount of effort it is, its not cheap.

For info

http://www.spcalignment.com/component/s ... m&to=USATo



http://www.spcalignment.com/instruction ... NS_WEB.pdf

[v8 omfg]

I run 8mm front and 10mm rear HR spacers.

Car is not lowered. Only reason it is not lowered is that i simply do not want to pay Audi to recalibrate all the assistance systems. A few on here say there is "no negative issues" but when the Audi workshop manuals specifically require re-calibration, i'd want it calibrated, and after having the car in for a re-aligment under warranty and speaking with the technician about the amount of effort it is, its not cheap.

For info

http://www.spcalignment.com/component/s ... m&to=USATo



http://www.spcalignment.com/instruction ... NS_WEB.pdf

Andy thanks for the links.

Which 8mm spacers have you used and are they hubcentric ?
I couldn't find any less than 10mm?

Yes dropping it has deflected all kinds!
Hopefully addressed now!

I'm never going back to spacers! Without dropping it no doubt the issues are far less!

At least you have spoken fact regarding the change in a handling.

Cheers

[v8 omfg]

Alignment 8 will be Friday!
Purely down to a coil over part being damaged because it was locked solid with grit etc!
Replacement will be fitted Friday.

[MK2Golf24v]

Apologies, 10mm and 12mm, Hubcentric, wider at the rear for a slightly wider look.

[RIV]

Ring up centre of gravity, they will not advise you to fit different size spacers front to back, as this will affect the handling of the car.

[v8 omfg]

I was also under the impression that different size spacers on the front to back axel were not recommended, more so on a Quattro, the front and rear tracks need to be the same.

Andy which 12mm spacers are you using ?
Because of the issues (with 10mm) I was having I wanted to half it, and try 5mm, to see if the issues were 50% less! I couldn't find any hubcentric ones, lots of S4 and S5 non hubcentric, H&R didn't recommend using them.

Its quite ironic that "RIV" has typed that, the advice you refer to (where is it?) one guy explained that he had 10mm on the rear and 5mm on the front, when I asked a few Qs he disappeared and hasn't replied, I wonder if the penny dropped?

Just like before I have tried and tried with these spacers.
It was dropped, spacers fitted, alignment set (Yes to miss the arches!)
Handling issues, had it realigned, still had handling issues, but stock settings meant it rubbed the arches(the deflection across the chassis on road surface changes corners etc is quite incredible)
So I had it lifted 10mm, it still rubbed the arches (obviously less) when I hit road surface changes at speed it wasn't good.
I has 500 miles to do so I removed the spacers.
Then I had it dropped again 10mm, all ok and handing has been resolved with the "caster settings".
That is very summarised!
I could fit the spacers back on but to miss the arches I need cambers set in, or I lift it higher than the 10mm to miss the arches to retain stock cambers!
Or I go back to stock springs and use the spacers!

No I will sell it!

At this time the Audi network seem to believe the vehicle is worth less with an Akrapovic system over the battered stock version!
So I may be offering the Akrapovic system for sale and a switch back to stock, cant believe I am typing this!

[RIV]

Its quite ironic that "RIV" has typed that, the advice you refer to (where is it?) one guy explained that he had 10mm on the rear and 5mm on the front, when I asked a few Qs he disappeared and hasn't replied, I wonder if the penny dropped?

Not ironic, I'm busy building a basement,funnily more important than your problems, don't worry I won't waste my time replying to you, you sarcastic plumb