Stealers!

4.2 V8 32v Naturally Aspirated - 414 bhp
Bogyoch
Neutral
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Stealers!

Post by Bogyoch » Fri May 22, 2015 7:12 am

I believe that the design of the brake disc is quite possibly the root cause of all the woes that RS4 owners have with brake judder. When I bought my car, I skimmed the discs front and rear to clean up the surfaces and fitted new pads at the same time. I had no problems with judder before or after skimming. I am always one for upgrading the brakes on any car I buy, and fitted AP discs and Brembo GT calipers after 2000 miles or so of ownership. The discs are mounted to custom made bells using bolts only, not bobbins. And this is where I think the problem lies with the OE disc.

On a racing car, the discs are mounted to the bells using a bobbin arrangement that allows for radial and linear disc movement: radial for expansion and contraction due to heat, and linear for reducing pad knock-off. Pad knock-off is caused by flexure in the hub and bearing assembly when cornering: the disc pushes against the pads and moves them away from the disc surface. When you next apply the brakes, the initial pedal travel is taken up moving the pads back to the disc surface again. Racing calipers further reduce this by having springs fitted behind the pistons. A fully floating disc assembly is quite noisy as the disc rattles when the brakes are applied. This is not the sort of thing you want for your road car, so the OE disc manufacturer fits anti-rattle spring clips to the bobbins. This effectively reduces or possibly even stops any true float that the discs may have as the spring clips are quite stiff. After a while road dirt and corrosion build up in the bobbins further reducing any float. And finally to the crux of this long winded waffle. When you have cornered hard and flexure has caused the disc to push against the pads, the disc moves in the bobbins but doesn't naturally return to a central position due to all the road dirt and corrosion. We know that the 8-piston caliper has really only one problem and that is also with corrosion. This corrosion occurs under the pad wear plates causing the pads to jam. With the poor design of the disc for the road and too tightly fitting pads, disc runout is the end result.

Of course, the cast iron disc can also warp, and uneven pad material deposit can cause harshness to the brakes, but the RS4 front disc is quite unique in its (poor) design.

Lastly, I attach a picture of a disc I skimmed recently for an RS4 owner. The discs had only covered 1000 miles or so, and he was complaining of awful brake judder. You can see quite clearly the amount of runout from the uneven cut. (Look at the right hand side of the disc: this is where the cutter is cutting first. After three passes of the cutter, the discs were spot on and the car's owner has been very happy since.

Image
Last edited by Bogyoch on Fri May 22, 2015 8:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

irishmike
3rd Gear
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:52 pm

Re: Stealers!

Post by irishmike » Fri May 22, 2015 8:03 am

Good information there!

Just on the bedding in process, is that the standard one for an RS4, got my discs and pads changed recently and I'm sure that wasn't carried out

Bogyoch
Neutral
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:58 pm

Re: Stealers!

Post by Bogyoch » Fri May 22, 2015 8:24 am

For bedding in of standard road pads or fast road pads (DS2500 or the like), I put the discs through a series of "warming" cycles. After an initial pootling about to make sure things are working, I brake using a medium pedal pressure from around 60mph to about 20mph, let the brakes cool a bit and repeat the 60-20 braking. I do this maybe 10 times or so and then I'm good to go. Or stop. The bedding in procedure will take longer if you've fitted new pads to used discs, and longer still if the discs are worn unevenly with grooves around their surface. For race pads, follow the manufacturer's instructions.

User avatar
stu
5th Gear
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:42 am
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Stealers!

Post by stu » Fri May 22, 2015 9:54 pm

irishmike wrote:Good information there!

Just on the bedding in process, is that the standard one for an RS4, got my discs and pads changed recently and I'm sure that wasn't carried out
Yes, that's the official Audi bedding in procedure. I member here gave me the details a few years ago on a PM, and that PDF that I linked to is a scan of the page Audi Tyneside gave me to do the second and third sets. I already had used the same protocol and logged it the first time as I found the whole thing quite amusing and I like playing with gadgets (see the other link in the earlier post).

It's impossible to do correctly with any traffic and anything less than 70 miles. Crazy. Yet dealers can and do use it against you to wriggle out of parts warranties.

Making an official bedding in procedure like makes me think they were pretty worried about the discs.

Post Reply

Return to “RS4 (B7 Typ 8E) 2006–2008”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 73 guests