Boundary lines and neighbour wars!

[jaysrs4]

Anyone here any experience with the above?

We've recently bought a property with the express purpose of extending with a double extension down the side and double to single across the rear, of which planning has been approved and has now commenced.

Unfortunately the physical boundary to the right of the property (as you look at it), isn't very clearly defined between us and the neighbour.

There are concrete posts lining the boundary (located on his side) in the rear of our/their garden and if you take a straight line from face of them down the side of the land to the end of the land out the front, it puts the boundary right in the middle of a row of conifers that separate the properties.

As ever these situations are extremely delicate and before I gave the builder the nod, I organised a meeting with the neighbour, myself and the builder to agree where the building was going and if there were any issues, to which he didn't turn up for.

As it happens, the building isn't going up to what we believe is the boundary line, it's going up to the 'pin curb' of our driveway. However he thinks the 'pin curb' is the boundary line!

He tried shouting me down last Wednesday, (but i'm a pretty clam person, and kept reserved), after his wife came back to see all the shitty foliage removed (to which he originally agreed) along with two conifers, leaving the side of his property exposed and our old garage knocked down. I basically told him where the building was going (again) and he kicked off saying if our footings encroach over what he thinks is the boundary he'll go mental. So the builder said, for ease he could build the garage wall on the original line but because its not load baring, it wont need wide footings. Problem I've got now is that the neighbour 'thinks' the guttering will encroach (all of 4 inches!!!).

I've told him we'll replace the conifer (and some!) and obviously make good (most of which has been done bar the conifers but will be when the build is finished), but the guttering issue is really bothering me and to be fair, so is falling out with my new neighbour!

Anyone offer any advice at all? Thoughts on how you'd handle it? I've attached an ordinance map of the properties (ours in the green area), but when it comes down to inches, it's not clear, even the thickness of the green line marking the boundary needs to be considered - feckin nightmare!!!

[doodlebug]

You may hate me for saying this, but you really need to sort a party wall agreement, especially if existing plans are unclear. Do you have the deeds?

[jaysrs4]

Yes mate, we have the deeds. I'm a bit unsure if he'll do anything now and he works away through the week with his wife probably winding him up all week about what we're doing - they knew what the plan was and originally when we spoke, he actually said he didn't have an issue about the guttering overhanging if we wanted to, as I pointed out our other neighbours does.

Problem is, when the builders started, his wife went mental at the owner of the building company who was on site, being all abusive - so he said 'I take this kind of thing off my wife, I don't expect to come to work and take it off you'.

This obviously wound her up and she's gone mouthing off to her husband whilst he's away. Now they think my builders are w*****s, but far from it, they are the nicest lads you'd ever deal with.

So I think that's out the window

[lofty]

If you'd had a party wall agreement then you could have put the over hang of your foundations on his side, as you don't then your doing the right thing by keeping them on your side, I wouldn't mention that to your neighbour though as it may cause you loads of hassle if he realises you should have served him a PWA. If your right up to the boundary then the gutter cannot really overhang his land, but I guess that's the hard part trying to agree the boundary, you'd need to get a professional in to determine the boundary if you can't agree it between yourselves.

[jaysrs4]

Thanks Lofty, what I don't get is how can planning can be approved with the supplied measurements if it 'supposedly' places the build over the boundary. What about the building inspector? Would that not also be something he'd pick up on his visit(s)?

[doodlebug]

My neighbours are going through the same with their neighbours. Not because there's really an issue, but because it's quite an emotive topic.

Ultimately if plan is approved then the horse has bolted, and all the inspector can do is tie you to your plan. But as lofty has said, better to remove any encroaching!

[lofty]

The planners won't get involved with a boundary dispute even though they have passed the plans causing the dispute. It's always been weird that boundaries are shown simply with a line but no measurements, its a poor system that causes no end of problems and disputes.The last two extensions I built both had to have complicated gutters so they didn't overhang the neighbouring property, it's a pain but it's sometimes the only way to get around it.

[jaysrs4]

The planners won't get involved with a boundary dispute even though they have passed the plans causing the dispute. It's always been weird that boundaries are shown simply with a line but no measurements, its a poor system that causes no end of problems and disputes.The last two extensions I built both had to have complicated gutters so they didn't overhang the neighbouring property, it's a pain but it's sometimes the only way to get around it.

Ah now you're talking - tell me more about the guttering please buddy. The base for the garage has been laid, footings are down (not encroaching where he thinks is the boundary) and wall will probably be up in the next few days. As I said, it's not a load baring wall, just a usual garage wall.

I don't want to loose anything off my garage, and even though I may still be in the right with a normal gutter, if I had some kind of clever gutter, it would be a big finger up to him - he seems to think he was a builder, but I don't think he was a qualified one - he did his own extension and its crap.

Thanks in advance.

[lofty]

I've searched my phone and can't find any of the extensions I spoke about, we basically had to build up the external leaf a few courses above the roof and form a hidden lead gutter, its expensive, looks a bit odd and is a pain in the arse to do but it had to be done.This photo is of another extension I built above the garage, if you look closely the existing house has a large soffit but the neighbour wouldn't allow that much overhang so we had to keep the roof back and use a gutter with the fascia against the wall, it doesn't look too bad and at least the neighbour allowed some overhang.

[lofty]

The one I was thinking about was like this

[Ian_C]

You'd need to get a professional in to determine the boundary if you can't agree it between yourselves.

Probably the best bet - settle it once and for all. He then has proof in writing you are not encroaching and can STFU. You can then put up a regular guttering instead of changing the plans to a more complex (aka expensive) system!

[MikeFish]

It looks to me like the boundary is quite straightforward from the ordinance map. Take a long bit of string and run it along his left hand wall so that the string is flat against his left hand wall and then take it in a straight line from there to the front and rear boundaries. Does it not work out that simple in real life?

[jaysrs4]

Thanks buddy that's interesting. However because the roof to our garage is pitched, I can't see how that would work.

Everyone I speak to has said 'fcuk him, if we know where the boundary is and we're confided we're not encroaching, is he seriously going to pursue expensive legal action over a gutter?' If so and in the unlikely event he's successful, I'll remove it and speak to the builder.

[jaysrs4]

It looks to me like the boundary is quite straightforward from the ordinance map. Take a long bit of string and run it along his left hand wall so that the string is flat against his left hand wall and then take it in a straight line from there to the front and rear boundaries. Does it not work out that simple in real life?

That's exactly what the builder did and it puts the boundary in the conifers! Lol And he's contesting it.

[b7rs4saloon]

Boundary issues are a nightmare!

My neighbour took down some conifers and put up a fence, making his garden 1m bigger, while I was on holiday! I had photos, plans, deeds etc and it's been legal ping pong for 5 years.

Best thing you can do if you know your right is build it ASAP and then worry about if later.

You will have legal cover on your house insurance that should take it on.

All the best