What would you do...

[Targa27]

Some advice for a Friend please....

Ive already had the oil cooler and hoses issue recently whilst working over here in Belgium.
A local guy noticed I had the same car (they are very rare here) and called in for help.

His is over 5 years old, out of warranty but with FASH.
Last week whilst driving home from the dealer after a service the yellow oil light came on.... strange he thought after a service but continued regardless. No red light at anytime he said
The following morning found the contents of the sump on the ground in the garage.
Car towed to the dealer, they tell him about his corroded hose and remove the sump and supply him with pictures of minisule flecks of metal.

They are now offering a strange solution, hes not sure of the details, but basically they will get the car running but reakon its good for only another 20,000km! (and for 3000eur)

I told him he should contact Audi belgium as the corroded hose is a common problem and the dealer should have been inspecting it?
Certainly to leave after a service and encounter this should entitle him to some assistance?

But this is Belgium, no such this as customer service......

[victor2vt]

How many miles/KMs ?

[MartayMcFly]

... if you were asked to give up your dreams for freedom?

[RobM]

Nice one Marty, you beat me to it.

Seriously though........

I'd want to know :-

How many miles/Km at what sort of engine revs/speed did he drive with the yellow light on?

Did he do any hard cornering, acceleration or braking with the yellow light on?

Is he certain that he did not get a red light on whilst the engine was running?

What oil and water temperatures were reached during the journey?

How much oil did the garage drain out of the engine before removing the sump?

How many miles/Km has the engine done in total from new?

Can you post the pictures he was given?


The Yellow light is a low oil level warning light.
The red light is a low oil pressure warning light.

Continued use with a red low oil pressure light showing is usually terminal, quickly.

Continued use with the yellow light showing is not necessarily terminal at all, especially if the car was not used hard whilst it was showing. The yellow light level sensor will be set, by Audi, to give a fair amount of warning that the level is low. It's not advised to just keep on going with it lit but there will be some leeway.

If it was used hard it is possible that the reduced amount of oil could move away from the oil pump pick-up briefly, which could result in air being pumped through the lubrication system. If it was revved hard the reduced amount of oil could have become excessively aerated. In both cases air does not lubricate too well but it could have maintained enough pressure to fail to trigger the red light.

Modern oils are pretty good at providing brief protection in this event, especially if the oil was new.

If it was driven for a while whilst low then the amount of splash lubrication available for non-pressure fed components (ie pistons/bores for instance) could have had an impact but this depends on how low, low was. The bores and many other internal components can be inspected using a lens on the end of a flexible probe, called a borescope or endoscope.

Most if not all engines will have a small amount of fine metallic debris visible in a sludge in the bottom of the sump. Modern oils are designed to gather it and hold it there in that form. The questions are - How much, how large are the particles and what metal are they.

For the garage to say the engine is good for a finite amount of mileage now is a bit of a shot in the dark, on their part, frankly. It's either taken damage, in which case it's lifespan is very hard to define, or it hasn't, in which case repair the hoses/oil rad, replace the oil filter and oil and drive on.

Suggest he gets onto Audi Belgium and requests expert assessment. Also suggest he asks for a sample of the oil they took out, preferably about 1 litre, for analysis. But, it's probably too late for that. Try to get hold of a sample of the metallic sludge.

It is possible that Audi Belgium may feel that the corroded hose should have been spotted during the service, it is a known issue with these cars. They may step up with some goodwill, if pressed, or lean on the garage to make things right.

I hope that all of this will help him understand a little better and perhaps then he can make his own judgement of the likelihood, or otherwise, that his engine is damaged.

Keep us informed.

[Targa27]

Thanks for the detailed reply Rob.
As you can imagine its all a little lost in translation...
But i doubt he would ever tell the truth about how far he drove and how hard... as for km's etc i have no idea...

I just wanted to know if you guys thought that this is an item that should be checked by an Audi dealer during routine service and if it was in the UK you would expect Audi UK to take some responsibility for it if it happened whilst driving home from a service....

Regarding the lights etc, shouldnt the software a dealer have be able to show the lowest oil pressure recorded and at which Rpm site??
I find it hard to believe that they cant make a better stab in the dark..... but like I said, this is Belgium....

[adsgreen]

Rob is bang on here - most cars even have magnetic sump plugs designed to catch the swarf and shavings that comes off.

To be 100% clear, the oil cooler whilst a badly designed piece of crap is not a service item according to the checklist so don't exect it to be inspected.
Worth asking for this every service and even for the some protecting gunk to be applied.