Another stake in the heart carbon naysayers

[S4Player]

Bare in mind back at the start say almost three years ago Mrc done exactly what they do now and tested it on an independent dyno and gained 50hp. Saying because its there dyno the results aren't credible isn't exactly fair is it saki? It's not like we're talking about apr who make outrageous claims

[MikeFish]

When comparing those cars the difference can be made by one car having better tyres than the other.
Whenever anyone ask me for the best mod I'll always say decent tyres; they can improve acceleration, handling and braking!

[bam_bam]

I wonder if a Wednesday car would beat a Friday car...

[RS4pete]

Saki is just trying to quantify (using the drag strip) the actual real world difference carbon build up causes. Something very difficult to do using only HP decreases/increases. It doesn't matter if a clean gives you 80 HP, what matters is the increase in actual performance. As he's said, if you knew for example that a £800 clean gave you .2 of a second down the strip would you really bother?

It's much easier to sell a carbon clean by quoting HP increases because you don't REALLY know what that actually equates too.

[sakimano]

Bare in mind back at the start say almost three years ago Mrc done exactly what they do now and tested it on an independent dyno and gained 50hp. Saying because its there dyno the results aren't credible isn't exactly fair is it saki? It's not like we're talking about apr who make outrageous claims

I didn't question mrc. In fact if you read what I wrote, I went out of my way to say that.

I don't doubt MRC at all

On the us based forums, NOBODY has given mrc and tts more support and publicity than me. I don't know what the Apr reference has to do with anything either. Frankly you look a little hypocritical for chinning me about saying something about mrc (even though I didn't lol) when you go and do the same about APR three seconds later.

I just don't care for the dyno and don't put any stock in it...nor do I think we should settle for dyno results as 'proof'.

[sakimano]

When comparing those cars the difference can be made by one car having better tyres than the other.
Whenever anyone ask me for the best mod I'll always say decent tyres; they can improve acceleration, handling and braking!

You may have missed it, but both cars have brand new Michelin pilot super sport in 255.35.19 stock size on stock 9x19 wheels at the same tire pressure.

So now what?

[bam_bam]

When comparing those cars the difference can be made by one car having better tyres than the other.
Whenever anyone ask me for the best mod I'll always say decent tyres; they can improve acceleration, handling and braking!

You may have missed it, but both cars have brand new Michelin pilot super sport in 255.35.19 stock size on stock 9x19 wheels at the same tire pressure.

So now what?

One of the cars the back seats laid flat, it's more aerodynamic, dontchaknow?

[adsgreen]

Also "50hp" on it's own has no meaning - needs to be put into context as in where that 50hp has gone.
Saki has said in the past he find it works best to shift around 7500-8000 rpm (I can't recall exactly but I know it's lower than the rev limiter).
This makes a huge difference too as if the 50hp is lost at 8000 rpm then the power lost at 7500 will be less... posisbly a fair bit as any breathing problems caused by blockages in the valve and intake areas get worse as revs increase. This would make things even closer...

Now if the car was 50hp down at 4000 rpm then for sure you'd notice that!

[bam_bam]

Now if the car was 50hp down at 4000 rpm then for sure you'd notice that!

Hmmmm, if only there was a way to measure power at 4000rpm. Someone should invent a machine that can do that, it would solve all of these 'arguments'. Maybe, someone could build a moving road that will somehow measure pow.... oh wait...

[sakimano]

Hmmmm, if only there was a way to measure power at 4000rpm. Someone should invent a machine that can do that, it would solve all of these 'arguments'. Maybe, someone could build a moving road that will somehow measure pow.... oh wait...

lol

One of the cars the back seats laid flat, it's more aerodynamic, dontchaknow?

mine has the front seat almost flat...I'm 6'5" and have it well reclined to keep my head from scraping the headliner!

[sakimano]

Also "50hp" on it's own has no meaning - needs to be put into context as in where that 50hp has gone.
Saki has said in the past he find it works best to shift around 7500-8000 rpm (I can't recall exactly but I know it's lower than the rev limiter).
This makes a huge difference too as if the 50hp is lost at 8000 rpm then the power lost at 7500 will be less... posisbly a fair bit as any breathing problems caused by blockages in the valve and intake areas get worse as revs increase. This would make things even closer...

Now if the car was 50hp down at 4000 rpm then for sure you'd notice that!

that's a good point...as I said earlier I think the 20 whp that people lose (that seems to be the average for a car with say 20,000+ miles on it without a cleaning) is primarily up top...I don't think we're seeing a loss of 20whp from idle to redline.

I shift at around 7800 RPM in 2-3-4. In first, I often run a bit deeper. I never hit the rev limiter, unless I've screwed up badly. The other car shifted around 7800 as well, for the record.

That car that was down 50 hp (crank) on the MRC dyno...I would guess that there was something wrong with the car other than carbon, that was addressed in the process (consciously or not). Probably a vacuum problem? Intake Manifold bolts backing out on the before (used to happen to the B6/7 S4 4.2 MPI engine).