Buying at the 'wrong' end of the market- tips?

[kmpowell]

Hi all

I've been looking at B8 S4 Avants, but with the circa 22MPG there really doesn't seem to be any benefit to buying one over a B7 RS4 for day to day running costs. I would go as far to say as the B7 might be a better bet as it's done the majority of it's depreciation already...

In short I need a car that can carry our dog (a Whippet lurcher) and a baby that is hopefully due next year. Limited mileage I do a year (circa 3-5k), sees the man-math equate a Petrol is better for me than a more expensive diesel. The car will spend 80% of its time on long motorway runs (300-400 mile round trips), and then shopping/chore trips for the rest of the time. From what I have read the B7 will give 17-22mpg back around town, but what about on a motorway run can I expect much more?

I'd originally budgeted £25k-£30k for the S4, but it appears an RS4 can be had for circa £20k. There are what appears to be dogs out there at the bottom of the market for £15k-£18k, but surely a well looked after £20k car with low(ish) mileage is a safe bet, or are there specific things I need to look out for?

Thanks in advance

[HYFR]

1. Buy P_G's care for £17.5k. The mileage is NOT an issue (except in your head) and you will find better for anywhere that money

2. The B8 gets 30+ all day long

[Ranger Rico]

Motorway speed cops are what you need to look out for in an RS4!
So far Ive got around 17mph around town and around 25mpg if im behaving on a long journey, i don't know how that compares to other drivers.
Everything you need to lookout for is already on this forum but i did a bit of searching to find mine and cars below 20K usually had a few negatives including high mileage.
Ive just bought my 06 RS4 for 22k with 45K on the clock and i love it.
As good as the S4 is i truly believe if you get it you will always ask yourself if you should have just got the RS4, but then with a baby in the back you may not get the opportunity to appreciate it.
But i honestly believe you will not regret getting an older RS4.
Good luck

[Coaster]

22mpg is a sensible overall average for your proposed usage but this will only go up to 30+/-2 on long motorway stints depending on speed. Not sure about the B8 S4 but 22 seems low for such a small engine??

[river_rat]

Don't be fooled into thinking the cheaper RS4's are all dogs.

Mine is currently for sale for just over 18k and has been well looked after, looks and drives very well and has had money spent on it when needed including recent major service, new clutch and 4 tyres.

As a private sale I think this is only going to fetch 18k (or 14k from the 'innit' brigade) hence the price, but this in no way marks it out as a dog - if I don't achieve the price I will simpy keep it!

[pDkALO]

As others have said, there's lots of info on what to look out for with the RS4 - fabulous and very special car, but you just have to bear in mind that it's got some pretty special kit on board that will cost more to maintain when it goes wrong or wears out (e.g. engine from an R8, brakes from a Gallardo, and DRC suspension from the Audi boffins' lab). And of course the youngest B7 RS4 is now nearly 5 years old.

By contrast (in my personal opinion) the B8 S4 is a very nice car, but is more of a nicely spec'ed A4 with added speed, so the parts will amost certainly be cheaper.

In my personal experience I get circa 20mpg from my RS4 in daily driving over a mix of roads, and recently got 22mpg over 200 miles in a B8 S4, driven the same way over the same roads - I was disappointed, as I was expecting circa 30 - not sure if D_K has some tricks to achieve 30+? But then everyone drives differently, and I reckon that the long 7th gear in the S-tronic S4 will eke more mpgs out on long runs.

At the end of the day if you have £20-25k to spend on either, you'd be able to get a very nice warranted car from an Audi dealer - at that price point an S4 would have youth and cheaper running costs in its favour, whereas an RS4 has a unique special feel, and THAT V8!

[kmpowell]

Thanks for the replies all - certainly food for thought. The insurance quote I got last night came back at only £50 more a year than my current fJCW R56 Mini. So everything is pointing towards me pulling the trigger on a B7 if I can find a good one sub £20k

Digging deeper into prices, there appears to be a £4k-£5k premium on a dealer forecourt. Would you say this is worth it, or just wasted money? Obviously there's a 12mth warranty when buying from a dealer, but this car at Tonbridge for £26k, has similar cars pitched at circa £20k on the private sale market. Can you buy an after-market warranty from Audi, and if so does that warranty insist on a full ASH?

Now onto some more basic questions:
1. I see that 2007> cars have clear front indicators, was this a facelift, and if so what else was changed (if anything)?
2. Have there been any engine revisions through the B7's lifecycle?
3. Recaros - given I'm going to using it for 80% motorway work, how forgiving are the seats on long journeys, am I better off buying one with sports seats instead?
4. I presume Bluetooth phone prep and Cruise Control were standard, not options?
5. Any 'must have' options?

Thanks again.

[Coaster]

Can you buy an after-market warranty from Audi, and if so does that warranty insist on a full ASH?

yes, the audi warranty requires FASH.

3. Recaros - given I'm going to using it for 80% motorway work, how forgiving are the seats on long journeys, am I better off buying one with sports seats instead?

can't see the point of buckets on the motorway! the sports seats (aka comfort seats) are exceptionally comfortable and quite supportive too.

4. I presume Bluetooth phone prep and Cruise Control were standard, not options?

Cruise is standard, BT is not.

5. Any 'must have' options?

sat nav was an option but you'll struggle to find a car without so fair to say this is 'must have'. Auto lights, wipers and mirrors are nice to have but a liability when they go wrong.
Once you have chosen your target headline spec, mileage and price point you may not be able to quibble over which toys you want unless it is a common spec and high mileage.

[P_G]

1. 2007 MY cars did have the facelift clear indicators
2. There have been no engine revisions
3. Depends on your frame and aesthetics but equal numbers on here would say buckets or Recaro sports seats
4.Cruise was standard, Bluetooth IIRC was as part of the Tech Pack which in later models was phased out and separates bought so some cars will not have the module.
5. Must have's again is subjective. Most say flat bottom steering wheel, carbon interior inlays, tech pack which was nav. adaptive xenons and bluetooth; light (coming home/rain/light sensor/auto dimming rear view mirror) and storage packs and heated front rear seats, possibly ceramic brakes and sunroof but both very rare

As an adage, mine has all of these including comfort seats bar the ceramics and sunroof plus the clear indicator front lights if you are interested plus some aftermarket addditions you will probably get around to doing as part of the price. The common mysnoma with RS4's is people always go for the low mileage ones but when you read through the forums the ones not regularly used often have the issues. These cars were built to be used everyday and mine until recently has and as a consequence has had almost zero faults with it bar replacing the front DRC some 60K+ miles ago.

[pDkALO]

Dealer vs non dealer is an age old question really - at the end of the day it pretty much comes down to personal preference and how confident you are at spotting potential issues in a private / independent dealer sale, and how much you want to set aside for possible work vs paying the extra to a dealer for a degree of peace of mind.

In my experience I bought a good straight clean car from an Audi dealer a year ago and have had around £2500 of bits done under a combination of Audi warranty and things that weren't quite 100% when I bought it, and the dealer agreed to sort out. Some will have probably needed next to nothing, others possibly more. With mine the stuff that's failed is all standard stuff (auxiliary rads x2, vacuum repairs, engine mount) but that lot alone is over £1500 at dealer prices.

Re your other questions, agree what Coaster says. In addition, don't get confused over the seats - Recaros ARE the sports seats (or "comfort" as they're often called). I assume your question was about the bucket seats - you really need to sit in both and find what suits. Which is "best" is another old topic that always generates debate on the forums, and the answer always seems to be that it's down to personal preference. Another "must have" question is flat bottomed steering wheel vs the multi function round wheel - at the end of the day you'll usually find most cars have the flat bottomed one, so your choice may be made for you anyway when you start looking around.

I'm not aware of any major (if any) engine changes thru production, and I believe that clear indicators were the only 'facelift' changes, but there are others on here with far more knowledge so I may end up being corrected....

[pDkALO]

Post crossed with P_G - there's the rest of your answers from someone who's got much more knowledge on these beasts than me

[Coaster]

I bought my car from Audi Nottingham because that is where it was offered for sale and I decided it was the car for me- right headline spec & condition, albeit price a bit over what I was hoping to pay. It turns out that it doesn't have the centre armrest it was claimed to have in the advert and they will now retro fit that FOC. I doubt if an indie would do that and as for a private sale you are where you are. From my experience when you are hunting for a rare car in a potentially rare spec you will need to compromise on something and just need to be clear with yourself where your hard limits are.
On the topic of seats you definitley need to sit in both before deciding. It was this process that put me off the buckets having previously been a massive fan.
Flat bottom wheel with carbon fibre inlays and buckets seats seem to be the most common spec so if you want different you will have to look harder.

[kmpowell]

Thanks again for more quick responses!

Sub/circa £20k Avant
Avus, Daytona or Mugello (the missus doesn't like 'sporty colours' such as Sprint, Misano and Imola)
Sub 70k miles

Must Haves:
Nav
Cruise
Bluetooth
Auto wipers/lights
Flat bottom wheel
FSH

Nice to haves:
Sun Protection Glass
Black Optik
Buckets

... the hunt is on...

[Coaster]

forget the buckets, this is the car for you:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/4204962.htm
you can sell the bike rack to me!!

[andre3k]

^ Must admit, I looked at that ad a few days ago & thought that would make a good purchase. Given that there's prob a little bit of negotiating fat on the asking, it's underpriced IMO & great value.