Is supercharging worth it?

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I read that in my head using the voice of R. Lee Ermey.

[bam_bam]

For the record... Why? because it's a great test, and they have a great kit, and they will do well. You should blow less hot air and stop being such an apologist...TTS don't need you to fend off my request for a 1/4 mile timeslip. They're going. Their customers are going. Many of us are just looking forward to it.

1. What record?!??!
2. Who said it's the greatest test?
3. So give it a break already!

For the record I am Scottish, living in Canada...and you can go f*ck yourself you English c*nt.

I'm an Australian <beep> living in England, at least I can <beep> myself in a real country.

[sakimano]

If you don't understand that the quarter mile is used by just about every car community on earth to track performance/acceleration mods I'll just chalk that up to you being 'unique'. Some people think the quarter mile is 'beneath' the RS4...it's a test for rusted out American shitboxes from 3 decades ago, and dragstrips worldwide are populated by toothless hillbillys. In fact that's the opposite of the truth. My local dragstrip is generally populated by a wide variety of enthusiasts from modded JDM cars to Audi/BMW/MB to full blown Italian supercars etc. The GTR, Porsche, AMG, M, EVO, STi, SRT, Audi S/RS, Corvette, Mustang, Lamborghini communities all have extensive 1/4 mile databases, as it's just a recognized benchmark test that gives a great look at how a car is performing.

It offers a long list of measurements 60', 330', 1/8th, 1000', 1/4 as well as MPH checks at the 1/8 and 1/4 mark. All of these measurements tell a story about the car, and if a car is as you suggested being poorly driven, it shows up on the timeslip and a video of the run. If someone can't launch, it shows in the 60' time. If someone can't shift, it shows in the video. This is not tough though...we're talking about accelerating hard from a stop till about the top of 4th gear. If you can't do that you may want to sell your RS4 and buy an automatic AMG car or something similarly simple to drive fast.

The people who rail against the quarter mile are almost always
a) the elitists I described above whose insecurities feel it lowers the car and themselves (talk about having weak self worth)
b) the tuning companies whose products just don't work as claimed
c) customers who bought products from those tuning companies, and are making excuses to justify their purchase

TTS have nothing to fear and nor do they need people like you to try to bully away any requests for the data. They chose a great supercharger. They have a great kit design. They have a good tuner. The car will do well.

[PetrolDave]

I didn't hear BAM BAM or yourself complaining when dyno sheets were floated in here. Why is that?

Because you don't read enough ...

I am a 100% believer, and a passionate poster here and elsewhere, that RR results have no use WHATSOEVER in determining the absolute power from the engine. Yes they have a use at comparing before and after doing work on a car, or comparing cars back-to-back (not on different days) but that's all they are good for.

I also have no interest whatsoever in 1/4 mile standing start times, they are no measure of the handling ability of a car, just it's raw power. I used to have a turbo hot hatch (Renault 5 GT Turbo) with less than 1/3 of the power of a Lotus Esprit, yet I could easily keep up with an Esprit on a winding road in Norfolk - yet in a 1/4 mile standing start I would have been nearer the start line than the finish in a drag race with an Esprit. So 1/4 mile times also have no relevance in the real world.

sakimano - we know from your previous "efforts" on here that you rate the results of 1/4 mile times, but the majority of us on here don't as we value handling at least as much as power. So stop trying to sell something to us that we don't want.

[sakimano]

I didn't hear BAM BAM or yourself complaining when dyno sheets were floated in here. Why is that?

Because you don't read enough ...

I am a 100% believer, and a passionate poster here and elsewhere, that RR results have no use WHATSOEVER in determining the absolute power from the engine. Yes they have a use at comparing before and after doing work on a car, or comparing cars back-to-back (not on different days) but that's all they are good for.

I also have no interest whatsoever in 1/4 mile standing start times, they are no measure of the handling ability of a car, just it's raw power. I used to have a turbo hot hatch (Renault 5 GT Turbo) with less than 1/3 of the power of a Lotus Esprit, yet I could easily keep up with an Esprit on a winding road in Norfolk - yet ina 1/4 mile standing start I would have been nearer the start line than the finish in a drag race with an Esprit. So 1/4 mile times also have no relevance in the real world.

sorry, I stand corrected.

Do you understand though that when we're discussing a supercharger as a power adder...we don't really care about handling 'delta'...we're more interested in acceleration delta. To measure acceleration delta we have a few options:

1. logging - problem with logging is there is no GPS verification of altitude changes...and running on a +7% grade vs. a 0% grade or a -7% grade will look radically different...and thus are useless for car to car comparison purposes across country/continent/earth. So that's out.

2. pBox GPS verified performance - this would be great...I'd welcome it. Just have someone run the file through a verification process (6speedonline.com has a great 60-130 database...basically the second half of the quarter mile with a master list manager who verifies all entries/submissions). Problem is not everyone has a 400 pound pBox.

3. IHRA/NHRA certified dragstrip times - again, great because they're run on flat surfaces, they're standardized, and they deliver loads of great data. Cost is about 20-40 pounds depending where you go, and its a lot of fun at the same time. Legal speeding...can't beat that. Further, just about every production car on earth is quarter mile tested by the major automotive periodicals, so we have an overwhelming pool of data for comparison.

If raw power is really irrelevant in your mind, that's fine...but that doesn't mean it's irrelevant to people who are looking at buying a supercharger kit (or exhaust/tune for power).

[bam_bam]

If you don't understand that the quarter mile is used by just about every car community on earth to track performance/acceleration mods I'll just chalk that up to you being 'unique'. Some people think the quarter mile is 'beneath' the RS4...it's a test for rusted out American shitboxes from 3 decades ago, and dragstrips worldwide are populated by toothless hillbillys. In fact that's the opposite of the truth. My local dragstrip is generally populated by a wide variety of enthusiasts from modded JDM cars to Audi/BMW/MB to full blown Italian supercars etc. The GTR, Porsche, AMG, M, EVO, STi, SRT, Audi S/RS, Corvette, Mustang, Lamborghini communities all have extensive 1/4 mile databases, as it's just a recognized benchmark test that gives a great look at how a car is performing.

It offers a long list of measurements 60', 330', 1/8th, 1000', 1/4 as well as MPH checks at the 1/8 and 1/4 mark. All of these measurements tell a story about the car, and if a car is as you suggested being poorly driven, it shows up on the timeslip and a video of the run. If someone can't launch, it shows in the 60' time. If someone can't shift, it shows in the video. This is not tough though...we're talking about accelerating hard from a stop till about the top of 4th gear. If you can't do that you may want to sell your RS4 and buy an automatic AMG car or something similarly simple to drive fast.

The people who rail against the quarter mile are almost always
a) the elitists I described above whose insecurities feel it lowers the car and themselves (talk about having weak self worth)
b) the tuning companies whose products just don't work as claimed
c) customers who bought products from those tuning companies, and are making excuses to justify their purchase

TTS have nothing to fear and nor do they need people like you to try to bully away any requests for the data. They chose a great supercharger. They have a great kit design. They have a good tuner. The car will do well.

I own a C5 RS.

-You believe in the quarter mile test, you must be correct, everyone else is wrong.
-Your dragstrip is "populated" by amazing people, wow, everyone else is proved wrong, yet again.
-You mention a whole bunch of car manufactures, I'm sold, you really do know your onions.
-You explained how a 1/4 mile is run. I'm speechless, you're the new Michael Moore.
-You attack those who rail against 1/4 milers and explain them as insecure?!?! You really think people get insecure because they choose NOT to go to a dragstrip. Hahahah! That's the most amazingly fuct sentence I've read yet. You've gotta explain yourself on that one, this is gunna be gold.

I think the TTS kit is amazing. However, this is not a game where I'm trying to "bully away any requests for data", I don't even own a B7 and I rarely go near a dyno, I have no vested interest in this 'game'. You've missed the point. You dismiss any other measure of power unless it's 1/4, you label everyone a <beep> if they disagree with your unit of measurement. It's boring, move on, you're not peddling anything new, you're old hat.

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My issue with 1/4 miles times is that they suffer from the exact same problems as published 0-60, 0-100 times.
There is too much variance attributed to both the driver and in some cases the track (some drag strips have gripper launch areas than others).

We all know the driver aspect - very few people are prepared to put their pride and joy through a proper launch followed by several full power shifts. It's the single hardest thing you can do to a car - even hard track driving doesn't hurt the drivetrain anywhere near as much as a drag run. With a TTS you simply won't be able to power shift so you will need to back off during up changes... how much varies from driver to driver. Even then shifting as fast as possible will wear synchros... it all adds up.

To me it's no different from a dyno - fun, yes, but absolute total formal truth? no.
For example, you could easily add more power and end up with a slower run if you don't have the underlying traction to deal with it.

[sakimano]

I own a C5 RS.

-You believe in the quarter mile test, you must be correct, everyone else is wrong.
-Your dragstrip is "populated" by amazing people, wow, everyone else is proved wrong, yet again.
-You mention a whole bunch of car manufactures, I'm sold, you really do know your onions.
-You explained how a 1/4 mile is run. I'm speechless, you're the new Michael Moore.
-You attack those who rail against 1/4 milers and explain them as insecure?!?! You really think people get insecure because they choose NOT to go to a dragstrip. Hahahah! That's the most amazingly fuct sentence I've read yet. You've gotta explain yourself on that one, this is gunna be gold.

I think the TTS kit is amazing. However, this is not a game where I'm trying to "bully away any requests for data", I don't even own a B7 and I rarely go near a dyno, I have no vested interest in this 'game'. You've missed the point. You dismiss any other measure of power unless it's 1/4, you label everyone a c*nt if they disagree with your unit of measurement. It's boring, move on, you're not peddling anything new, you're old hat.

You attack those who rail against 1/4 milers and explain them as insecure?!?! You really think people get insecure because they choose NOT to go to a dragstrip.

those are two very different things. I said that most of the folks who rail against the quarter mile belong to one of three gruops, then listed them. I didn't say all/everyone (you did). I didn't say 'those who don't want to go to the dragstrip' (you did). I said those who rail against the quarter mile.

The other items I mentioned were not to earn your praise...just to highlight, for you, the fact that you're uninformed on the use of the quarter mile by tuners/tuning companies around the world. You asked a question along the lines of 'since when is the quarter mile the benchmark'. Well, it's funny...you're just out of the loop. Understandable. You're still reeling from the beatdown in New Zealand last year.

I haven't 'dismissed any other measure' at all. I just think the 1/4 mile is more useful for customers who want a data point to evaluate the moving performance of the car, rather than being satisfied with a dyno plot that isn't really reflective of what we do with our cars every day.

You've made many leaps in your post. Take note - I called you a <beep> because you acted like one, trying to insult an entire country because someone doesn't agree with you. I called noboyd else a <beep>. You said that I did. Those are not one and the same. When the facts become too tough for you to manage, or you're proven ignorant about something (i.e. the widespread use of the 1/4 mile in the Audi community) you deflect and start flinging silly insults and making absurd leaps. Stick to the facts for once. Quit being such a drama queen. I asked for a simple timeslip that both MRC and TTS promised us AGES ago...and you turned that simple followup request into a two page diversion. Congratulations.

[sakimano]

My issue with 1/4 miles times is that they suffer from the exact same problems as published 0-60, 0-100 times.
There is too much variance attributed to both the driver and in some cases the track (some drag strips have gripper launch areas than others).

We all know the driver aspect - very few people are prepared to put their pride and joy through a proper launch followed by several full power shifts. It's the single hardest thing you can do to a car - even hard track driving doesn't hurt the drivetrain anywhere near as much as a drag run. With a TTS you simply won't be able to power shift so you will need to back off during up changes... how much varies from driver to driver. Even then shifting as fast as possible will wear synchros... it all adds up.

To me it's no different from a dyno - fun, yes, but absolute total formal truth? no.
For example, you could easily add more power and end up with a slower run if you don't have the underlying traction to deal with it.

true to an extent there are certainly variables...however I've no doubt that TTS and MRC aren't going to send their car to the track with a novice at the wheel who may embarass the kit. I also think people make the 1/4 mile out to be a lot harder than it really is. Maybe they're ham fisted but to be honest, it's not that tough. Ever accelerate hard from a light when you're beside an M5? Ever have a go at your buddy on the way back from the golf course (or wherever)? Ever accelerate briskly on an on-ramp? This is a collection of the 'skills' you need to produce a good quarter mile time. Maybe not the best, but the difference between good and best is pretty slim. An example from a month ago was a good one. JHM's jaybquick, arguably the best driver in the B5 S4 scene, ran his car at the dragstrip. Another forum member was there in his K04'd B5 S4 sedan. The customer ran 11.5 @ 122. Jaybquick drove it to an 11.4 @ 122. The car was JHM tuned so you know jaybquick wanted to get the most out of it.

I've never power shifted my RS4 or my old S4 at the dragstrip. I don't launch it to break it. I'm not a pro-driver. Despite this I have one of the fastest stock RS4 quarter mile times ever and one of the fastest all motor B6/7 S4 times ever. If I can do that, it can't be that hard.

[RSKiwi]

You're still reeling from the beatdown in New Zealand last year.

Well said that one sentence....the rest...meh, I'll let my favourite windy road run tell me if my mods made any difference but I continue to eat popcorn with interest with this thread.

[sakimano]

You're still reeling from the beatdown in New Zealand last year.

Well said that one sentence....the rest...meh, I'll let my favourite windy road run tell me if my mods made any difference but I continue to eat popcorn with interest with this thread.

[bam_bam]

Errrm, we got beaten fair and square at the RWC, I can see how that's relevant in this case!?!? Incidentally, how many Rugby World Cups have Scotland and Canada raised above their heads... Collectively... again, relevant.

1/4 mile is a pointless pursuit on here but by all means, keep flogging that dead horse, it'll not fight you back and it'll be about as flaccid as you opinion.

*yawn*

[sakimano]

Errrm, we got beaten fair and square at the RWC, I can see how that's relevant in this case!?!? Incidentally, how many Rugby World Cups have Scotland and Canada raised above their heads... Collectively... again, relevant.

1/4 mile is a pointless pursuit on here but by all means, keep flogging that dead horse, it'll not fight you back and it'll be about as flaccid as you opinion.

*yawn*

it's a joke. Your sense of humour is about as sharp as your performance acumen.

The quarter mile 'on here' is not a dead horse. TTS and MRC will go, and will share their results. It will be great information for the B7 RS4. That's it really. There should be no drama.

[sonny]

*burping on my popcorn" carry on.

[bam_bam]

it's a joke. Your sense of humour is about as sharp as your performance acumen.

The quarter mile 'on here' is not a dead horse[for me]. TTS and MRC will go, and will share their results[just for me because I'll cry if they don't]. It will be great information for the B7 RS4 [for no one but me]. That's it really [that's all I'm about, I am one dimensional]. There should be no drama.[Because no one is interested anyway]

FIXED.


Performance acumen, what the <beep> are you going on about?