Straw Clutching

[marv8]

Audi give you a 2 year warranty on a gearbox that ZF make, buy it from ZF and you only get a 1 year warranty. My gearbox is fine atm but i lnow it's only a matter of time so i have started proceedings to get an ACE upgraded torque converter sent over from the states.

Is this ace torque converter proven? ?

I was wondering the same thing having only just got my car fully functioning after a GB rebuild. I believe ACE need a TC to upgrade, Amanda has just managed to get one but think she found a unit in Canada, had it shipped to ACE then ACE did their thing and shipped to the UK. Imagine it is not cheap with postage and import duty but hey nor is a new gearbox!

I would just be worried if it failed, I believe ACE offer a long/lifetime warranty not sure how you would stand with costs. Would they want to inspect the TC? Would they pay for labour? How long would you be off the road for? Maybe this is something Amanda can give us an idea about?

[posterboyj]

The question is, what is the cause if the gearbox failure?

TC / TC seals
Clutch plates
ATF levels

Or a domino effect as a result of something?

Shirley there must be 1 answer, 5k for a new box + fitting

[bilko1]

Audi give you a 2 year warranty on a gearbox that ZF make, buy it from ZF and you only get a 1 year warranty. My gearbox is fine atm but i lnow it's only a matter of time so i have started proceedings to get an ACE upgraded torque converter sent over from the states.

Is this ace torque converter proven? ?

Well it gets good feedback from the RS6 owners over the pond and if it can survive Amandas 950nm of torque i'll be more than happy.

[bilko1]

The question is, what is the cause if the gearbox failure?

TC / TC seals
Clutch plates
ATF levels

Or a domino effect as a result of something?

Shirley there must be 1 answer, 5k for a new box + fitting

The tc seals seems to be the main cause of the problems and Audi have supposedly modified these, but the failures keep happening. T/c seal fails then converter can't lock properly, this burns out clutch in t/c which sends particles through the autobox causing that to fail. As with anything mechanical i'm sure there's other things that can and have failed but the above seems to be the main culprit. The other thing that annoys me is the way in which the torque converter fault is logged in the ecu (17125) but does not put a warning light on until it's too late. How many people have bought an RS6 not knowing this code was logged only to find the box going south a short time later?

[bakustax]

How many people have bought an RS6 not knowing this code was logged only to find the box going south a short time later?

That's a good question.....I would imagine quite a few!
On the VWVortex site the VW Phaeton owners only noticed because the engine managment light came on (in some States in the US emmition regs are pretty tight and the engine managment system flags up if more fuel is being used...i.e. the lock up clutch fails)....JC said a couple of posts back that the lock up clutch is non critical to the working of the box....it's primary function is to save fuel....it's the debris from the clutch the causes the problem.
Try this senario.....The RS6 is 90% Avant...i.e. bought as a family car to keep dad happy at the week-end when he gives it a bit of Yahoo on the country roads.
I imagine that if you are driving the car normally and not exerting major torque on the box components,with regular ATF changes,....unless you plug in the VAGCOM.......you will never know you have a problem for long enough.....I certainly didn't till I had a slipping episode.
My advice....if the box feels like it's serving you well.....change the ATF regularly....VW quote every 20K for the Phaeton.....and unless things take a decided turn for the worse.....enjoy the car and don't plug in the VAGCOM.....you might get a nasty surprise!!
Ignorance is bliss......it can also save you circa 5 grand and a lot of stress/worrying!!!

[posterboyj]

Interesting, if the ecu has a logged a fault code which happens to be cleared by the owner, I wonder how long it takes to show up again on a test drive?

If Amanda is successful then a new TC from America is the best way forward.

Even a new gb from Audi will fail

[bakustax]

[quote="posterboyj"]Interesting, if the ecu has a logged a fault code which happens to be cleared by the owner, I wonder how long it takes to show up again on a test drive?

It is only in the States that the engine management light will show anything is wrong.....UK models will not flag up any problem....the only way to be sure if there is a problem is to get a Vagcom done on the vehicle before you part with any cash.....as per JC he had a dealer check his car over and it was given the all clear, it was only when he put the Vagcom on the car,some 1500miles later,that he found out there was a problem...........In stick shift Britain any new owner may very well be coming from a manual car.........and as before....to the uneducated (and I'm classing myself as that!)...the fact the lock up clutch is AWOL....is very difficult to spot.

[bakustax]

Right here we go.....I took the car out today and have given it a good ragging.......2 tanks of fuel have been burned and the front pads are a whole lot thinner than they were last nite!!.........In an effort to either break something and force myself to get the box refurbed and an upgraded torque converter fitted.........or convince myself the car is perfectly useable and commit to a ATF flush and refresh every year..........my thinking on this is more a hoovering up job i.e. getting the bits of clutch out of the box on a regular basis.
Nothing broke slipped or banged into gear.........but I did get the ESP and ABS lights to illuminate and stay that way for about 20mins....this was after some dropping into Sport and flooring it a few times for around 30-40miles.....I think the technical term is "giving it Yahoo!!"....this happened twice....both times 20mins later the lights went out....related to the 17125 fault....or....another problem in the offing??
Any pearls of wisdom would be appriciated
Thanks Graham

[Shoppinit]

Dunno. Could be a brake light switch playing up? Have you checked the DTCs since your ragging?

Broken / badly seated MAFs can do this, too, but I have no idea why.

[bakustax]

Have you checked the DTCs since your ragging?

No I haven't.....and I'm not sure if I want too!!
Have been doing some more hard driving today and have thus far been unable to repeat yesterdays illumination.
If I'm honest I'm begining to view the VAGCOM in the same light as "Pandoras box"....all the horror's of the world/Audi lie within......best not to open/plug in
Until something horrid happens....regarding the gearbox....I'm going to....not think about it....hopefully the gearbox gremlins got flushed away during the ATF service

[Revolvo]

Old thread but.... Been thinking to bring the car in for a gearbox check, replace ATF, and inspect seals. Spoke to the local ZF gearbox specialist about it and he immediately recommended that I consider replacing/upgrading the torque convertor before it goes south and chews up my gearbox. He reckons the gearbox on RS6 will break (repeatedly) and I might as well bite bullet now while I still have gearbox worth inspecting/saving etc.

Concur or is it a false economy?

[Shoppinit]

First you need to find out if there is an uprated TC or not. Get part numbers. I'm always a bit worried that gearbox places put the wrong parts in since the RS6 is almost, but not quite, identical to other inferior boxes.

My own thinking is that an underlying problem causes the TC and box to fail at the same time. Say week ATF pressure due to a regulation problem or similar. You can change the TC all you like, but if the TC is munching itself, then probably so is the box.

If you're going to pull the box out to change the TC then you might as well strip down the box to check for wear. But by the time you've done that, you might as well just replace the box with a ZF exchange unit.

In fact, if something in your TC / box is lunching itself then you'll see the debris in the ATF. Just do regular changes or inspections and check the condition of the ATF.

[sweegie]

Yep, I'd liken this to chopping your healthy dick off, just in case you try and shag a manky lass...

If bad things happen, deal with it at the time... If not, change the filter and fluid regularly to give it every chance of a long life

[Revolvo]

Most convincing argument I've heard so far this century.

Okay, cancelled visit to ZF specialist and have now booked in with local independent Audi specialist for fluids, filter and seals replacement on gearbox. Dealer hmmed and hawwed about it so I didn't bother with him this time, no point taking a risk but no point going overboard either I reckon, gotta do it the Goldilocks way.....

[sweegie]

Cool, honestly the fluid and filter change is very easy indeed. The RS6 box is no different to any other 5HP24 in its fill procedure. Just make sure they use the right oil and you'll be fine. I might even ask them what they plan to use, or supply the oil yourself. Audi and ZF fill it with Pentosyn ATF-1. Make sure you (they) know what they're doing if they go "off piste" with the fluid