Certified dyno graph:

[P_G]

Thank goodness, another voice of sense.

[HYFR]

FFS! I've just read this thread from start to finish and am now wondering how I can get the 20 minutes of my life back. What appears to have started as ArthurPE posting some data (plus opinion) that throws further doubt into the accuracy/repeatability of RR testing moved rapidly into heated debate (no problem with this as it benefits the arguments - for and against) before degenerating into personal attacks and cheap digs.

If a number of folk want to pursue and debate the mystery of the RR figures then that's their personal choice (personally I choose not to as I have better things to do with whatever time I have left on this planet, as I've said before if the car feels fine then it is fine) but personal attacks and cheap digs really piss me off.

So far I've enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum but if this worrying trend continues it will not be healthy for the overall future of the forum. I'm all for free speech and opinion and recognise that there are some issues that won't be resolved/agreed on here but last time I checked it still wasn't against the law to agree to disagree.

Now, if everyone can pick up all their toys and put them back in the pram maybe we can resume normal service.....?

[rs4v8]

+1

[RobbieRay]

S2tuner's suggestion that the American mentality has grown so accustomed to a litigious society and as such they may not realize how different the U.S. has become from other nations with regard to claims and torts, is a fair point. Not a bad thing or even insulting and Arthur you shouldn't view it as such. You have benefited from such a society as stated with your lawsuit against BMW. However to state that your ancestors kicked our 'arses' (is spelt with 2 S's BTW not 3) out once (helped vastly by the French... how embarrassing) and 'BAILED' the Brits twice is highly offensive to ME!! As far as I know the later 2 wars were fought by multiple countries, the allies, each sacrificing many many lives to fight an unprecedented evil. I wonder how my grandfather would of viewed your comments seen as he fought for your right to air your views lost many friends, here and on the battlefields, only for some punk then say it was all because of the U.S. BTW Mr P.E the only war your country has ever fought without some kind of help from an allied nation was Vietnam. Nuff said. Currently serving D&D Light Infantry ban me if u want.

[ArthurPE]

before you judge me, look at the sum of the whole:
I posted purely technical data/links to refute the under rating theorists
the result:
I'm 'misguided'
'American mentality'
I'm on 'Audi's payroll'
at that point I fired a 'shot'
then , I deny reality, and have no clue
my credibility is questioned re: my technical conclusions
I 'only acknowledge things that benefit me'
I'm compared to 'russiandood'
I'll state 'madoff is innocent'
it's stated you can't sue BMW or (Audi) corp., a bald faced lie
I'm called 'septic', for my rebuttal to the russian dood comment
I am called a liar for my BMW lawsuit, and am delusional, re: tinker bell
I need 'luck with my life, I'll need it'
called a liar again about dynos, something I've been involved in for >20 years, despite the facts I post, re: accuracy, etc.


there is plenty of 'balme' to go around, you know, glass houses and all...
the only difference, I'll own mine, while others want me to own 'theirs' also, lol

[BlingBling]

S2tuner's suggestion that the American mentality has grown so accustomed to a litigious society and as such they may not realize how different the U.S. has become from other nations with regard to claims and torts, is a fair point. Not a bad thing or even insulting and Arthur you shouldn't view it as such. You have benefited from such a society as stated with your lawsuit against BMW. However to state that your ancestors kicked our 'arses' (is spelt with 2 S's BTW not 3) out once (helped vastly by the French... how embarrassing) and 'BAILED' the Brits twice is highly offensive to ME!! As far as I know the later 2 wars were fought by multiple countries, the allies, each sacrificing many many lives to fight an unprecedented evil. I wonder how my grandfather would of viewed your comments seen as he fought for your right to air your views lost many friends, here and on the battlefields, only for some punk then say it was all because of the U.S. BTW Mr P.E the only war your country has ever fought without some kind of help from an allied nation was Vietnam. Nuff said. Currently serving D&D Light Infantry ban me if u want.

Succintly put.

[ArthurPE]

S2tuner's suggestion that the American mentality has grown so accustomed to a litigious society and as such they may not realize how different the U.S. has become from other nations with regard to claims and torts, is a fair point. Not a bad thing or even insulting and Arthur you shouldn't view it as such. You have benefited from such a society as stated with your lawsuit against BMW. However to state that your ancestors kicked our 'arses' (is spelt with 2 S's BTW not 3) out once (helped vastly by the French... how embarrassing) and 'BAILED' the Brits twice is highly offensive to ME!! As far as I know the later 2 wars were fought by multiple countries, the allies, each sacrificing many many lives to fight an unprecedented evil. I wonder how my grandfather would of viewed your comments seen as he fought for your right to air your views lost many friends, here and on the battlefields, only for some punk then say it was all because of the U.S. BTW Mr P.E the only war your country has ever fought without some kind of help from an allied nation was Vietnam. Nuff said. Currently serving D&D Light Infantry ban me if u want.

'nuff' not said...
talk about a whiney little 'punk'
face to face is better, respect is easier to 'muster' up, vs internet guts, lol
hike up the skirt nancy boy and get a dose of reality...sip, sip

the UK is not immune, they sue over everything...
look at all the suits against magazines for slandering celebs...
look at mosely, suing becasue he was taped being a nazi slave boy or something...

btw: Australia and South Korea both were in Viet Nam, and spilled blood, I know this from first hand experience...

are you saying if the US had not intervened in WW1 and 2 the outcome would have been the same?
or had the US not armed the world to large extent, including the Chinese and Russians...
what if we just sat back, defended our borders, and built the bomb...what then?

are you slandering the French? like asking them, in their 'stereotypical cowardly ways', was some implication that as 'weak in combat' as they are, we are more so? what a piece of work, backhanded AND insideous...

your grandpa fought for my rights? he was in the Revolutionary War of 1776 era...really? he fought for the Bill of Rights? wow

I hope all people with guns don't share the same temperment, lol
why would they ban you? Americans died for freedom of speech, it's the 1st Ammendment in the Bill of Rights...we believe it applies equally to all, as some of you apparently don't judging from the attacks meant to stiffle me...

as far as lawyers/litigation:
US: Lawyers: 1,143,358 Pop: 303Mil
UK Lawyers:151,043 Pop: 61Mil

so we have 5 times the population and 7 times the lawyers, not a huge difference...we aren't socialist based (health care in particular), we are capitalists free market, so when you have a system like that, you need more lawyers...I'm guessing the free market healthcare accounts for most of the difference itself...not saying good or bad, just is...
China has less, is that good?

[Sims]

S2tuner's suggestion that the American mentality has grown so accustomed to a litigious society and as such they may not realize how different the U.S. has become from other nations with regard to claims and torts, is a fair point. Not a bad thing or even insulting and Arthur you shouldn't view it as such. You have benefited from such a society as stated with your lawsuit against BMW. However to state that your ancestors kicked our 'arses' (is spelt with 2 S's BTW not 3) out once (helped vastly by the French... how embarrassing) and 'BAILED' the Brits twice is highly offensive to ME!! As far as I know the later 2 wars were fought by multiple countries, the allies, each sacrificing many many lives to fight an unprecedented evil. I wonder how my grandfather would of viewed your comments seen as he fought for your right to air your views lost many friends, here and on the battlefields, only for some punk then say it was all because of the U.S. BTW Mr P.E the only war your country has ever fought without some kind of help from an allied nation was Vietnam. Nuff said. Currently serving D&D Light Infantry ban me if u want.

'nuff' not said...
talk about a whiney little 'punk'
hike up the skirt nancy boy and get a dose of reality...sip, sip

the UK is not immune, they sue over everything...
look at all the suits against magazines for slandering celebs...
look at mosely, suing becasue he was taped being a nazi slave boy or something...

btw: Australia and South Korea were in Viet Nam, I know this from first hand experience...

are you saying if the US had not intervened in WW1 and 2 the outcome would have been the same?
or had the US not armed the world to large extent, including the Chinese and Russians...
what if we just sat back, defended our borders, and built the bomb...what then?

are you slandering the French? like asking them, in their 'stereotypical cowardly ways', was some implication that as 'weak in combat' as they are, we are more so? what a piece of work, backhanded AND insideous...

your grandpa fought for my rights? he was in the Revolutionary War of 1776 era...really? he fought for the Bill of Rights? wow

I hope all people with guns don't share the same temperment, lol
why would they ban you? Americans died for freedom of speech, it's the 1st Ammendment in the Bill of Rights...we believe it applies equally to all, as some of you apparently don't judging from the attacks meant to stiffle me...

Arthur Pe

Do you really have to be so offensive? I have not been on this thread, but it does concern that you are bringing this fine site into disrepute by your foul manner & language & forever accusing people.

You are an engineer and you have strong views. There are people here who respect your knowledge, and others who do not agree with you. But all these people, I believe, find your conduct (as per this post for example & this thread too) unacceptable on this UK forum. As David K said, in the US "people really lay into each other".

[ArthurPE]

Arthur Pe

Do you really have to be so offensive? I have not been on this thread, but it does concern that you are bringing this fine site into disrepute by your foul manner & language & forever accusing people.

You are an engineer and you have strong views. There are people here who respect your knowledge, and others who do not agree with you. But all these people, I believe, find your conduct (as per this post for example & this thread too) unacceptable on this UK forum. As David K said, in the US "people really lay into each other".

so, it's OK for him to attack me, and call me a 'punk', and the US a nation of cowards, in a very bakchanded way, but when I reciprocate, I'm out of line...you're kidding right?

do you own this place? are you speaking for everyone?

again, 16 months for me, 1 month for you (16 times as long), and yet, you have 1/2 as many posts...most of them stirring trouble up in contentious posts and an insulting manner...

if I were you, some friendly advice, check yourself and stop 'worrying' about others...

let he without sin cast the first stone...would that be you? lol

btw, the other thread has counted down to 91 iirc, and no one has counted up saying they wanted the BS you proposed...

[BlingBling]

Can the mods please do something about this character. He is bringing a good board down to the level normally found across the pond.

[ArthurPE]

Can the mods please do something about this character. He is bringing a good board down to the level normally found across the pond.

again, insulting America...

kettle, meet pot, you are one of the uglier members on here, and have trouble with more than a few that don't like your tone...
becareful what you ask for...you might get it...

[Terry1948]

It is never too late to give up our prejudices.(Henry David Thoreau)

[Sims]

Arthur Pe

Do you really have to be so offensive? I have not been on this thread, but it does concern that you are bringing this fine site into disrepute by your foul manner & language & forever accusing people.

You are an engineer and you have strong views. There are people here who respect your knowledge, and others who do not agree with you. But all these people, I believe, find your conduct (as per this post for example & this thread too) unacceptable on this UK forum. As David K said, in the US "people really lay into each other".

so, it's OK for him to attack me, and call me a 'punk', and the US a nation of cowards, in a very bakchanded way, but when I reciprocate, I'm out of line...you're kidding right?

do you own this place? are you speaking for everyone?

again, 16 months for me, 1 month for you (16 times as long), and yet, you have 1/2 as many posts...most of them stirring trouble up in contentious posts and an insulting manner...

if I were you, some friendly advice, check yourself and stop 'worrying' about others...

let he without sin cast the first stone...would that be you? lol

btw, the other thread has counted down to 91 iirc, and no one has counted up saying they wanted the BS you proposed...

You are not helping yourself Arthur.

[Sims]

Can the mods please do something about this character. He is bringing a good board down to the level normally found across the pond.

again, insulting America...

kettle, meet pot, you are one of the uglier members on here, and have trouble with more than a few that don't like your tone...
becareful what you ask for...you might get it...

No-one is insulting America or Americans.

[BlingBling]

Not an insult just a fact.

I regurlarly visit Audizine, Audiworld and the tone on those boards is just downright abusive. Other members may not like my tone, others do. I am pretty sure many find your attitdue much more appalling.

I NEVER resort to name calling, infantile attempts to belittle people or request people lift pu shirts and perform acts. This seems to be your trademark. Take a look in the mirror Art.

Oh and loose the chip on your shoulder about the US of A. It is not that great a country. Second thoughts keept it. It is quite amusing to see your insecurities about your country worn so openly on your shoulder.