RS4 B7 Stated Power claim of 420ps

[Sims]

I sleep well..
and don't roll over on an issue just because I am attacked by folks like you...

if people diagree with you, you consider it an attack. It is not. People do not have to agree with you, and thank goodness for that.

you can't change me..

Actually, it has happened. You will no longer engage in the vile language on this forum, and it's for your own good.

a 'reputation'? lol get serious
to those that have sent PM's, thank you for the kindness exhibited...

I don't doubt at all that there are people who think highly of you for I believe you have experience, nor do I have any doubt about the other for your abuse of the same.

now if we are done about making this about us, instead of deposits, let's each move on..

We are done, it was only your vitriol that brought about this diversion,but has achieved something. You have been very forthcomng on your views etc, how about answering these questions posed to you:

Are you associated with Audi?

Are/Were you involved with the RS4 engine development?

I have no further questions or comment for you. & I wish you well.

[Sims]

.. The deposits that we are seeing are not normal for any engine, they are not part of any engine designers requirements, they shouldn't be there and without doubt they affect engine performance, no question!

... my understanding is clear; it is a problem, it's not designed in, it needs sorting. Have a nice day.

Absolutely, common sense dictates that if Audi were to field a car in a race (say the Nurburgirng 24hrs. Le Mans 24 hrs, or a VLN 4 hrs) , they would be very much bothered with how much carbon build up they started with. They would not be indifferent. And that is good enough for me.

[rsierra]

Arthur, Why do engine tuners spend endless hours on a flowbench trying to extract the most flow from a cylinder head?

Also you insist that you have proven that carbon build up has no effect on performance. I have read your posts here and on on other sites and yet to see any conclusive evidence that supports your claim. Maybe you can summarize the data that supports your claim. I am talking real world performance data not theory.

The other thing I am trying to understand is your motivation. You are clearly obsessed with defending Audi, and even mention that it would be very difficult to win a lawsuit against them.

Are you working for Audi in some way?

in a race car tuned to the limit, it may help perfromance a few %, may
the RS4 is not at the limit and any restriction can be overcome by throttle

we have a data base of >50 runs, 3-8k rpm/3rd gear, no difference between cleaned-unlceaned and all cars are as good or better than factory new as tested by 4 different magazines...

in fact the average is better than cars doing the same run using ALL gears!

C'mon Art, any good engineer knows your data is hardly conclusive.

[sonny]

wow 14 page debate, this has made a very interesting read lol

[BlingBling]

FFS Arthur, get your head out of where the sun don't shine, get down off your pedestal, stop belittling people and face up to the fact that you are talking BS. The deposits that we are seeing are not normal for any engine, they are not part of any engine designers requirements, they shouldn't be there and without doubt they affect engine performance, no question!

I know you will reply to this and dribble on about all sorts of <beep> but I'm really not interested in what you've got to say. Your constant defence/denial of this issue is laughable. I will no longer entertain reading this thread as my understanding is clear; it is a problem, it's not designed in, it needs sorting. Have a nice day.

PMSL. Be careful karl. Art may well think your being ant-american

[Brooner]

Had a chat with the master tech at audi and i know he will be towing the compay line but made sence to me as a mechanical <beep> that if you use the engine and the car properly and avoid short hops were the engine dose not get up to temp this will contribute to the problem and stay away from cheap fules ie tesco etc. maybe they have better deturgents in the fuels in the USA?

[Terry1948]

I have discovered how to increase power to the RS4. I have washed it, vacuumed it out and taken it for a thrash to dry the brakes out without doubt it now has more power than before everyone should try it.

[ArthurPE]

if people diagree with you, you consider it an attack. It is not. People do not have to agree with you, and thank goodness for that.

you got that backwards, I get attacked for disagreeing

Actually, it has happened. You will no longer engage in the vile language on this forum, and it's for your own good.

really? choad, lol
get over yourself, you have no influence over me (or others), and even less over yourself

I don't doubt at all that there are people who think highly of you for I believe you have experience, nor do I have any doubt about the other for your abuse of the same.

gibberish, incohent, rambling...a compliment and a slight, all in the same comment

We are done, it was only your vitriol that brought about this diversion,but has achieved something. You have been very forthcomng on your views etc, how about answering these questions posed to you:

apparently 'we' aren't done, considering your diatrabe

Are you associated with Audi?
NO

Are/Were you involved with the RS4 engine development?
no, but I have 20 years + experience with engines of smiliar type, DI

I have no further questions or comment for you. & I wish you well.
I'm sure that's sincere, lol

as I said, the 'sick' machine can't fix itself...as 'proved' by your response...
I control you, you will respond...it will gnaw on you if you don't, lol
give it your best shot skippy...

[ArthurPE]

FFS Arthur, get your head out of where the sun don't shine, get down off your pedestal, stop belittling people and face up to the fact that you are talking BS. The deposits that we are seeing are not normal for any engine, they are not part of any engine designers requirements, they shouldn't be there and without doubt they affect engine performance, no question!

I know you will reply to this and dribble on about all sorts of <beep> but I'm really not interested in what you've got to say. Your constant defence/denial of this issue is laughable. I will no longer entertain reading this thread as my understanding is clear; it is a problem, it's not designed in, it needs sorting. Have a nice day.

and another peanut from the gallery chimes in...
thanks for the personal attacks and character assassination
the only thing 'laughable' is your 'drivel'

[ArthurPE]

Yet again, your professional conclusion is nothing more than your opinion. You can state it all you like but without data its as good as anybody elses.

We are talking about a compressible, viscous, highly unsteady flow regime with thermochemistry involved...

I care little for your ad hoc acceleration tests as well when they are done using the OBC and you have chosen to ignore the blatant error therein pointed out to you in another forum.

I'll profer up another set of observations to the table, which I have yet to see anyone else do...

On the day that pippyrips picked up his car post-modifications, I took him up there in my B7.

Two virtually identical RS4's except one remapped* with a clean, ported and polished manifold, tested at exactly the same time, under exactly the same conditions.

On the way home we did roll on after roll on at various speeds in various gears and what was the result?

Well anyone with any knowledge of the fluid dynamics of internal combustion engines would be able to tell you.

Now that is an incontrovertible fact inspite of any protestations of yours to the contrary.

Until you have done likewise and demonstrated the converse conclusion, I'm afraid your professional opinion is just wrong.

* I accept the comparison would have even more validity if the car hadn't been remapped.

my professional conclusion held up/prevailed in court in a lawsuit with BMW M...
they sent their national field engineer who specialized in M cars...
I tore him apart...and recovered legal fees, very rare...

I am the only one that has provded data, both mathematical and empiracal, not to mention all the 3-8k runs...
you have offered pictures...and expect everyone to draw the same conclusion as you...

I have education and experience in motive power and fluid dynamics, that's how I draw my conclusion, not from the opinions of others...
but I have consulted others and they confirmed my conclusion...
the deposits do not, and can not, impair Q flow, and therefor power...

one test, fixed or staged, does not 'prove' anything...

push back against dubious claims that defy logic;
be on the lookout for misrepresentations;
question the lack of science when belief is the substitution;
be very skeptical when the denial of the laws of physics comes into play.

[ArthurPE]

C'mon Art, any good engineer knows your data is hardly conclusive.

nothing is absolute, but it weighs more heavily than the anecdotal tripe being fostered as 'proof'

the accel runs
my knowledge of flow and engines
25 years experience with DI engines (application, testing, analysis etc.)
all the bogus dyno data (I know a lot about dynos, and could see thru the BS)
the fact that Audi says it's not a problem
the fact that diesels have had the issue and do not lose power
the fact that: BWW, Porsche, Ferrari, etc., are using it in increasing frequency

leads me to the conclusion that deposits do NOT impact power to any appreciable degree...not statistically repeatable, nor even measureable...


everyone will form their own conclusion...I will not do that for them, I trust them, they are intelligent...I will also refute those that attempt to BS or coerce them into believing the false assumptions...

no one has proven anything, but I have convinced myself it is not an issue, and share my logic, that's all, form your own conclusion...

what do I get out of this?
nothing other than personal attacks and ridicule
but there are others on the 'other side' who get something more tangible...$$$$

[ArthurPE]

Had a chat with the master tech at audi and i know he will be towing the compay line but made sence to me as a mechanical <beep> that if you use the engine and the car properly and avoid short hops were the engine dose not get up to temp this will contribute to the problem and stay away from cheap fules ie tesco etc. maybe they have better deturgents in the fuels in the USA?

he's outright lying...lol

driving style/service has much to do with the rate of growth of the deposits...imo, it doesn't matter much snce they do not effect performance

[ArthurPE]

I have discovered how to increase power to the RS4. I have washed it, vacuumed it out and taken it for a thrash to dry the brakes out without doubt it now has more power than before everyone should try it.

I think mine gets faster after cleaning also...I think oil changes help too

mine needs it badly, think I'll turn the heat pump up to 65F
-do an oil change (have a filter and 10 liters of LubroMoly)
-and give her a bath
while watching LeMans w/McQueen
I can check out my oil plug access panel I installed last change

I was inspecting my tires (lots of potholes this time of year, saw a $&%# blister!) luckily the tires are 80%+ consumed...I was hoping to get another month out of them until I put the summers on...decision time: new A/S's, or just put the summers on? I don't feel comfortable with the blister...

thinking about Conti DWS they come in 255/35/19 XL 96Y
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp ... ontact+DWS

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... ontact+DWS

$900 out the door, tax, freigt, install...

[S2tuner]

Arthur, you keep saying dynos are BS, how do you explain that on the same dyno where we had 4 B7 RS4s, 1 at 352 (intake ports were filthy), 1 at 383, 1 at 390 and 1 at 375 PS at the engine, then would you please care to explain why an Audi R8 V10 dynoed 535 PS with a supersprint exhaust on it? Assuming the dyno is just pure crap and worthless, the V10 R8 would have dynoed roughly the same percentage down on the claimed Audi power figures, wouldn't it?
Thank you for your enlightment.

Mihnea

[P_G]

You should know better than others that it is not that simple to explain and I sincerely hope you are not claiming that the differences in the power outputs of those RS4's is down the the varying amounts of carbon build up?