RS4 B7 Stated Power claim of 420ps

[mark758]

actually engines are rated with:
alternator
power steering pump
AC compressor (not engaged)
water pump/cooling fans, if engine driven
and all electrical powered devics (ECU, fuel pumps, etc.) required for the engine to operate

I didn't know that; I should have said free of a generation 5 Quattro drivetrain!

[Sims]

Sims do you feel you have been short changed by audi? .

Not at all, for my needs. Please see my original post. However I do think the engine should produce near to the the power stated, and have been surprised to learn there have been issues wth quite a few cars - as mentioned on this forum.

If you genuinely think this you should take audi to task

An Audi dealer has told me that Audi is aware of the issue, and the issue is being addressed.

but my car has given me nothing but enjoyment no drc problems (fact)( it feels as it is delivering the power (subjective).

Excellent, and I have no doubt my car too will give me great enjoyment once the DRC is sorted out on my car. The fronts were done recently, and the car is sitting a bit higher at the front - the Dealer said it will settle down, but will look at it next week anyway.

I have no faith in rolling roads so it would be pointless for me to go down that road.

OK, I see that but then I see all the photos of the valves clogged up etc on the cars that have not made good figures on the Dyno.. In some cases of course it has been something to do with the air box power flap??? Does that make sense?

As you can see a lot of people do have faith in their cars to deliver the quoted power. There is no answer to your question unless you are prepared to take your engine out and put it on a bench dyno.

There must be a lot of good cars out there, even the remaining ones would be amazing compared to most cars. I suspect there are also a lot of modded cars around. The answer to my question is of course that I need to keep in touch with all the developments on the two major concerns I have - DRC issues that have affected a very high number of cars in the UK (a prominent Audi dealer mentioned that 100% of the RS4's they had seen had DRC issues), and the issue about carbon build up on valves.

[RS6chris!]

No DRC on my baby. Quick as it ever has been...At the end of the day if you aint happy with the DRC Carbon build up etc etc sell the bloody thing and buy a BMW!!!

Getting sick of the constant knocking of our cars...which will have an effect long term on our cars...value wise.

I,m happy with mine never missed a beat mechanically and as quick as i need. END OF.

[mark758]

[RS6chris!]

No DRC on my baby. Quick as it ever has been...At the end of the day if you aint happy with the DRC Carbon build up etc etc sell the bloody thing and buy a BMW!!!

Getting sick of the constant knocking of our cars...which will have an effect long term on our cars...value wise.

I,m happy with mine never missed a beat mechanically and as quick as i need. END OF.

This forum must be the laughing stock amongest other forums..BMW etc all people do is question the abitities of the B7.....Like i said earlier if you aint happy sell the f#####g thing.

Does it do 0-60 in 4.5 to 4.8??

Does it do 0-100 in 10.9??

Does it pull as hard as it ever has?

Have you been up againest similar power machines and either kept up or beat them?

Does it sound like a wounded tiger?


If the answer to all of the above is YES....STOP BLOODY MOANING AND GET ON ENJOYING ONE OF THE FINEST MACHINES ON THE ROAD TODAY!!!!!

Theres nothing else out there that has even turned my head yet....

[ArthurPE]

Not at all, for my needs. Please see my original post. However I do think the engine should produce near to the the power stated, and have been surprised to learn there have been issues wth quite a few cars - as mentioned on this forum.

An Audi dealer has told me that Audi is aware of the issue, and the issue is being addressed.

Excellent, and I have no doubt my car too will give me great enjoyment once the DRC is sorted out on my car. The fronts were done recently, and the car is sitting a bit higher at the front - the Dealer said it will settle down, but will look at it next week anyway.

OK, I see that but then I see all the photos of the valves clogged up etc on the cars that have not made good figures on the Dyno.. In some cases of course it has been something to do with the air box power flap??? Does that make sense?

There must be a lot of good cars out there, even the remaining ones would be amazing compared to most cars. I suspect there are also a lot of modded cars around. The answer to my question is of course that I need to keep in touch with all the developments on the two major concerns I have - DRC issues that have affected a very high number of cars in the UK (a prominent Audi dealer mentioned that 100% of the RS4's they had seen had DRC issues), and the issue about carbon build up on valves.

the engine produces in excess of rated power...I have proof that it does, look at the performance times...you have no proof that it doesn't

BS: an Audi dealer would never incure liability and speak on behalf of Audi Corp., a dealer is a private entity with no legal financial relationship to Audi ag, they can't speak on their behalf...

I have communicated with the VP of Audi USA and you are not stating facts...they do not consider it a problem; it makes rated HP+
in fact it is legally certified by an independant 3rd party...

are you saying they only replaced the front struts?
that is improper procedure, diagnol units MUST be replaced along with the associated pressure valves...

the 'valves' are not 'clogged up'..it is physically impossible to reduce airflow
-the velocity will increase as area decreases, net volume the same
-the circular valve opening <<< cylinder formed by the valve lift
so it is not the limiting factor...I have seen accel numbers where UNCLEANED cars are faster than cleaned ones...

BS (again): Audi has never acknowledged a 100% fialure rate re: DRC
only <1% of the cars have had components replaced...

carbon deposit = natural = non-issue = 0 power loss

you are making things up, again...

where's the pic of your snail

[SR71]

sims,

The discussion has been had before.

You can see it is clear who belongs in which camp.

Suffice to say, that an engine whose internals look like this after 3000 miles isn't going to last as long as a non-FSI engine with no deposition on it.

Anyone who thinks it is is smoking crack IMHO.

The engines ability to flow air is compromised by this deposit inspite of what others say. They have probably never bothered to hook VAGCOM up to their engine so how could they ever know?

Granted it is not a huge percentage, but you are right...that isn't the point.

I can't be bothered to crunch the numbers but the difference between a car running 12.8 and 13.2 is probably 40hp so a car running 13.2 is down on a car running 12.8, correct? Thats incontrovertible.

But from my point of view, the clue is in the patent involving technologies to try and mitigate this effect.

De facto, this is an issue, and the technologies to combat it are still in their infancy.

Whether BMW and Mercedes chose not to make their flagship M3 and C63 DI as a result is worth considering. Kudos to them if they did because one hopes the RS5 is less susceptible to the matter.

Still, I've gone back to a non-FSI engine, and a load more power...



PS: Maybe you guys can ask QuattroGmbh about it when you're there in May??

[ArthurPE]

deposits cause no power loss, period...it's a basic fact
of course there is a difference between 12.8 and 13.2, but the average for an RS4 is 13/110/4100 lbs loaded
what is 'crack'? do you smoke it?

Porsche has made their flagship DI, as will BMW on the next M5
so does Ferrari

the patent stipulated methods to mitigate the natural propagation in DI engines, and it is effective as demonstrated by the times...
people with 50k miles and uncleaned are running as fast as people with 25k miles and cleaning...proof there is no impact

it flies in the face of the physics of flow to think that valve deposits in any way can inhibit flow..it's impossible...end of story...I ave proved it with basic math, and was confirmed by a PhD in fluid dynamics...they can't...

the issue with deposits is that they absorb fuel, causing a time delay or lag in the process...this does not affect DI engines, an advantage

[P_G]

No DRC on my baby. Quick as it ever has been...At the end of the day if you aint happy with the DRC Carbon build up etc etc sell the bloody thing and buy a BMW!!!

Getting sick of the constant knocking of our cars...which will have an effect long term on our cars...value wise.

I,m happy with mine never missed a beat mechanically and as quick as i need. END OF.

This forum must be the laughing stock amongest other forums..BMW etc all people do is question the abitities of the B7.....Like i said earlier if you aint happy sell the f#####g thing.

Does it do 0-60 in 4.5 to 4.8??

Does it do 0-100 in 10.9??

Does it pull as hard as it ever has?

Have you been up againest similar power machines and either kept up or beat them?

Does it sound like a wounded tiger?


If the answer to all of the above is YES....STOP BLOODY MOANING AND GET ON ENJOYING ONE OF THE FINEST MACHINES ON THE ROAD TODAY!!!!!

Theres nothing else out there that has even turned my head yet....

Hale bloody lujah!

[chemical-ali]

Exactly. Stop moaning all of you.

If your'e not happy get an M3 or a GTR or a souped up B5.

[mark758]

To be fair there was a vast majority of happy B7 RS4 people and a sprinkling of moanees.

Anyway I couldn't go to an M3....I'd miss all that sideways theatrics at bends/roundabouts and damp roads disappearing into my rear view mirror while they are proving their superiority over my Ingolstadt trundlebug.....

[HYFR]

my cars on 70k, what we need is a session at RWYB at Santa Pod vs. some of you young boys

that'll settle it !

[SR71]

If you're not happy get an M3 or a GTR or a souped up B5.

Well thats the Cardiff crew sorted isn't it...

[ArthurPE]

all Porsches use DI

most BMW's also, 3 lt turbo, 2.8 lt na, 5 lt na, 6 lt turbo...the only ones that don't the small block 2.8 and 3 and the M3, M5/6
the new X5M and X6M do use DI, the next M3/M5 will also...

all Ferrari

MB: more than a few in their line up also

why? don't you think they track the competition?
or is it becasue there are no issues...in fact the only mention has been on the internet, no reputable mags have done articles on it...

when the e46 M3 engines were fragging (and BMW was charging customers 18k to replace an engine with 3k miles) it was all over the established press...the new M3 has major issues, the main crank girdles are failing, major oil leaks unti catastrophic failure
GTR trannies, kaput, left and right

Toyota: their pedal faults are actually killing people, many people

so, for you that are losing sleep, a bit of advice:
put on some Miles Davis, perhaps Kind of Blue, turn the lights down, and coax your wife into snuggling up...it will become crystal clear in perspective, all will be revealed...

[Sims]

..put on some Miles Davis, perhaps Kind of Blue...

Finally something sensible



As SR71 says, it is very clear there are two camps - the believers & the independents.

These same believers think less than 1% of cars had/have DRC problems. Is there anyone in the UK who really believes that? I don't, but I am optimistic that issue can and will be resolved. Is the DRC for other markets different, otherwise there is a credibility issue.

The other issue has faced debate for good reason, and RR's are just a small part of it. I shall pursue that in my own time, in my own way.

Adios & Happy motoring

P.S. BTW I have owned a RS2, 4 and 6.