Certified dyno graph:

[ArthurPE]

let me postulate/hypothesize about the other side of the low dyno coin:
a tuner has a free dyno day for all of the same car type
he has 2 cars there he tuned
the tuned cars make quoted HP, everyone else is down...
let's say for arguements sake the dyno cf's were manipulated...

good marketing, huh?
sell a re-map, run a dyno, use more appropriate dyno cf's, voila, the 'lost' HP has been recovered by the tune...
never happen? right...whole wars are waged on deceit, why not a little profiteering?

from the dyno day:
we have seen no raw data, cf's, etc.
why?
printer is broken, software needs upgraded...
well, printers are a dime a dozen, and software can be downloaded in minutes, no hard copy needed...

everybody 'knows' somebody to back up their claims...
or has secret info, or the 'inside line'...
I know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy....
well, I'll let the science do the talking...
how do you like 'em apples, lol

Arthur,

MRC did the work on my car and used a competely independent rolling road to measure results at each stage along the way.

At the recent RR day at Paramount, only 1 car had been tuned by Paramount - raudiguy's. If your theory rings true you would expect their car to have topped the charts that day and it didn't, mine did.

Maybe the reason only 2 cars went above 400 that day is because the tuning work completed on each of them really does work...

All I can say is my car is noticably quicker & stronger now that it was before MRC worked on her so trust me when I say there is no funny marketing going on here..

Ah, but that was only after you were cajoled into running your car again against Jimbo's after it had cooled down, his was on top after your first runs togther, a cooler car for you meant better results and you came out on top.

funny how that worked, isn't it

[rAudiguy]

funny how that worked, isn't it

Yes a huge 4 bhp was gained!! well done you!! if anyone want's to race me to see if my figures are real or not bring it on!!

Hopefully by the end of the week I will have VAGcom up and running and will be able to tell you what my 0-100 and 1/4 mile times are and then we will know for sure what difference the work i've had done has made in the real world on the road.

[Dom81]

We still won't believe you

[P_G]

Jim,

I wasn't being sarcastic when I made the comment, it was in jest to Pippyrips.

However there is an element in truth about it that the exact same car made a different power output in different circumstances on the same r/road. Nearly as much as supposedly decoking of an engine? Why?

It is why I have been debating all this time that dynos are only good for predicting gains in your own car, even then they are not absolutley correct as just demonstrated by that fact alone. You cannot keep all the varibales constant, especially so in an open cell which Paramounts r/r is. And the majority of other r/r's I would add. From experience and knowing at what stage Rob's car was put on the road in the first run I knew that figure on his 2nd run would be different as much as others wanted to rubbish that.

All I wanted to sugest is r/r's are consistently inconsistent, moreso it would appear when dyno'ing RS4s! And not because of the road itself, because of a myriad of other factors which it cannot control or factor for unless told /programmed for. And as for Dyno Dynamics extensively testing RS4's and their software being up to the job, why is it then that the two most commonly known programs RS4 are measured against are not deisgned for RS4's? Shoot 8 is primarily for GM LS V8 engines and 44 is for 4 pot turboed 4 wheel drive cars, Scooby's and EVO's. So the program predicts and correlates information based on what those cars typically do in their power and torque curves, not what a high revving small output V8 does.

Unless you are going to use the exact same road, with the exact same fuel, with the exact same tyres at the exact same pressure and the exact same engine and gearbox temperatures and mileage and service internal and temperature and barromteric pressure at the same altitude that Audi used when producing the figure quited in all the brochures, this is a pointless argument. If people want to see that their cars make more or in some cases less when modifying it through remaps or exhausts, that is what r/r's are for and even then they are somewhat inaccurate but give a good indication.

[pippyrips]

Arthur,

MRC did the work on my car and used a competely independent rolling road to measure results at each stage along the way.

At the recent RR day at Paramount, only 1 car had been tuned by Paramount - raudiguy's. If your theory rings true you would expect their car to have topped the charts that day and it didn't, mine did.

Maybe the reason only 2 cars went above 400 that day is because the tuning work completed on each of them really does work...

All I can say is my car is noticably quicker & stronger now that it was before MRC worked on her so trust me when I say there is no funny marketing going on here..

Ah, but that was only after you were cajoled into running your car again against Jimbo's after it had cooled down, his was on top after your first runs togther, a cooler car for you meant better results and you came out on top.

funny how that worked, isn't it

What, heatsoak

[rAudiguy]

Jim, I wasn't being sarcastic when I made the comment, it was in jest to Pippyrips. However there is an element in truth about it that the exact same car made a different power output in different circumstances on the same r/road. Nearly as much as supposedly decoking of an engine? Why? It is why I have been debating all this time that dynos are only good for predicting gains in your own car, even then they are not absolutley correct as just demonstrated by that fact alone. You cannot keep all the varibales constant, especially so in an open cell which Paramounts r/r is. And the majority of other r/r's I would add. From experience and knowing at what stage Rob's car was put on the road in the first run I knew that figure on his 2nd run would be different as much as others wanted to rubbish that. All I wanted to sugest is r/r's are consistently inconsistent, moreso it would appear when dyno'ing RS4s! And not because of the road itself, because of a myriad of other factors which it cannot control or factor for unless told /programmed for. And as for Dyno Dynamics extensively testing RS4's and their software being up to the job, why is it then that the two most commonly known programs RS4 are measured against are not deisgned for RS4's? Shoot 8 is primarily for GM LS V8 engines and 44 is for 4 pot turboed 4 wheel drive cars, Scooby's and EVO's. So the program predicts and correlates information based on what those cars typically do in their power and torque curves, not what a high revving small output V8 does. Unless you are going to use the exact same road, with the exact same fuel, with the exact same tyres at the exact same pressure and the exact same engine and gearbox temperatures and mileage and service internal and temperature and barromteric pressure at the same altitude that Audi used when producing the figure quited in all the brochures, this is a pointless argument. If people want to see that their cars make more or in some cases less when modifying it through remaps or exhausts, that is what r/r's are for and even then they are somewhat inaccurate but give a good indication.

Graeme, no offence taking by your post at all, and I'm sure Rob didn't read into it like that either. I just get pi$$ed off when people try and say that all of this was a fix! some of you know me from meets others I met for the first time on the 18th but I purely have a passion for my car and want to get the best out of it, I just find it barbaric that someone suggests the figures were fudged! I'm only interested in the truth. and the fact is that the RS4 does not do what it says on the tin. As said before it's just a fact that if you do certain things with a custom map you can hit around 414. I have no doubt in my mind that if I took everything off my car and put it on Andy's car which ran 389.8 on surrey RR his car would then run 400+ with ease. I'm very much thinking for the sake of £40 quid I will go and run my car a Surrey RR and see what she does. in theory it should be between 420 and 430 on their road judging by other cars that have run on both.

Rob's car ran more power than mine and TBH I would have been a little gutted if it hadn't, as I too want to get my engine cleaned and manifold flowed so I wanted to see improvements. Obviously I'm chuffed with how well my car faired but I'm always on the quest for more power. the Arse dyno on my car is wicked BTW! lol Jim

[ArthurPE]

We still won't believe you

there are certified drag strips in the UK, no?

Santa Pod?

go make a few runs...the highest power car vs. the lowest power per the dyno's...post the time slips...

let's see what the difference is...
414 vs 330, the difference should be huge >1 sec and 5 mph trap

[scaghead]

arthur, i think you are barking up the wrong tree mate.. i went on the rolling road day at paramount and as rob and jim have said there was nothing dodgy going on or hard sales pitches ... mine showed something like 310hp on the rr when the fella who worked for paramount took it for a spin after he returned with a puzzled look on his face and said that car aint running 310 that is strange... [they could have said that jims was running <beep> and since they had done this ,and that it now gives him this etc... but they didnt] cheers jas

arthur did you read this ????

[S2tuner]

I think he only reads and remembers what suits him.

[VARSITY]

There is ~20hp difference between even their own tests on a 06 and 07 RS4...

Really? Tell me more?

[VARSITY]

ArthurPE, the Rototest is a hub dyno, not a roller dyno, so please stop talking about whp on the Rototest, as it's power at the hubs, not at the wheels+tyres.

OMG the S3 is more than overrated, it has no drivetrain losses, I didn't know that was even possible, or then Audi really give everyone a lot of BHP for free, that's nice, why are tuners still in business? I really wonder...

Anyway, what are you trying to tell us? That Audi have made a perfect engine that makes 100% of its rated horsepower, is that right?

well the other dyno does not measure 'wheel' torque either...
since there is no such thing, the tire delivers linear thrust...
the number would be ~ 1150 lb (not lb-ft)
you must divide by the final gear ratio (let's assume 1:1 for the tranny) and mult by the tire radius to get the axle torque...
1150 lb x 1.08 ft ~ 1250 lb-ft/4.11 ~ 300 lb-ft

the rotor test is a BETTER measurement of engine power because tire slip and mass inertia are not factors...this may be why everyones numbers are reading low...tire slip may be as much as 5% alone...
less variables in the voodoo power train loss factor, which no one will divulge anyways...

I'm not trying 'to tell you' anything...read it, don't read it, consider it or don't, I don't give a flying fudge...but if you believe Audi is perpatrating criminal fraud, and somehow the tuners have uncovered it thru bogus and manipulated dyno data, and at the same time found the magic solution, which they will sell you, then I can't 'tell you' anything...live in your bliss, and as they say it's ignorant

My bliss was to take Audi to task about my underpowered car. I have 58,000 reasons to be ignorant, whats your excuse?

See below!

[Dom81]

A blast from the past, and quite perfectly timed!

[Andyuk911]

Arrrrhh my old mate how are you varsity?

[VARSITY]

I am sorry to all, had to add to this one.

It still makes me smile, just need RussianM3Dude along now and it would be a grand reunion!

[VARSITY]

s2tuner, I am 'calm', wetf that means...but I see you have a vested interest...hmmmm...dood

'American mentality'?
we kicked your 'arsses' out once and bailed them out twice...
so if American mentality means help others and take no shyte from posers...guilty...
so sod off...American and proud of it...not perfect, but as good as any...

Audi states the car makes 414 SAE
many(mostly dyno owners/tuners) are saying it doesn't, it makes 380-ish and Audi knows it...
so that would be fraud and therefor criminal...period

let me postulate/hypothesize about the other side of the low dyno coin:
a tuner has a free dyno day for all of the same car type
he has 2 cars there he tuned
the tuned cars make quoted HP, everyone else is down...
let's say for arguements sake the dyno cf's were manipulated...

good marketing, huh?
sell a re-map, run a dyno, use more appropriate dyno cf's, voila, the 'lost' HP has been recovered by the tune...
never happen? right...whole wars are waged on deceit, why not a little profiteering?

from the dyno day:
we have seen no raw data, cf's, etc.
why?
printer is broken, software needs upgraded...
well, printers are a dime a dozen, and software can be downloaded in minutes, no hard copy needed...

everybody 'knows' somebody to back up their claims...
or has secret info, or the 'inside line'...
I know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy....
well, I'll let the science do the talking...

the engine is rated 414 in the states, SAE Certified...in the land of lawsuits there have been none re:RS4
although there have been many others: Mazda, Mustangs, Nissan, etc.

how do you like 'em apples, lol

now I'm tired, just installed 2 new door openers in my garage with custom aluminum brackets, concealed wires, etc.

recently did fresh concrete on the floors, fresh paint, recessed lighting, a couple of Pollack prints...looking good, the under-powered RS4 and the Mini Clubman look good in their new home...

peace out:

When you buy an Audi from the dealer you purchase that item from that sales organisation, not the manufacturer. When you go to the 'dealer' to resolve a problem you still deal with the 'dealer'. At what point do Audi USA talk direct to you? Never, thats why if you want to sue Audi, you will never be able to, it will be 'dealer' supported by Audi USA or UK or whatever your location. So your problem will have been dealt with far before that would ever happen. It will only happen if there is a class action for something as severe as the Ford Explorer tire (spealt for the American among us) debarcle.