Has anyone on this great site got any first hand experience on which is the best product to fit to standard rims and tyres on a non SS Saloon.
My Lad and I are planning a trip to Fance and would like to get there in one piece.
Thanks steve
snow again sorry
I have Wessenfel Quattro Klak & Go F40's as per this thread:
http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... now+chains
I also have snow-socks for the rear.
The chains fit my fronts with 275/30/19 rubber. You'd not be able to get them on the rear's - the image shows why. My saloon is not SS+.
To be honest though I've never had to use chains. I have had situations where I could have made better progress with the socks on, but its been too much fun just seeing how far I could get without any traction aids beyond the car's inbuilt TC.
Legally, you need the chains, although, like I said, I've yet to come across the gendarmarie enforcing this in France.
The resort will make a difference as to whether or not you're likely to need them as well...
I suggest reducing your tyre pressures once you hit the snow from the standard pressures you might run for the autoroute. Even though the car is 4WD it will not defy physics...
The car will also not thank you if you leave it outside for a week. Took me 5 mins to engage reverse having left the car outside for 6 days in temperatures lower than -10C.
http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... now+chains
I also have snow-socks for the rear.
The chains fit my fronts with 275/30/19 rubber. You'd not be able to get them on the rear's - the image shows why. My saloon is not SS+.
To be honest though I've never had to use chains. I have had situations where I could have made better progress with the socks on, but its been too much fun just seeing how far I could get without any traction aids beyond the car's inbuilt TC.
Legally, you need the chains, although, like I said, I've yet to come across the gendarmarie enforcing this in France.
The resort will make a difference as to whether or not you're likely to need them as well...
I suggest reducing your tyre pressures once you hit the snow from the standard pressures you might run for the autoroute. Even though the car is 4WD it will not defy physics...
The car will also not thank you if you leave it outside for a week. Took me 5 mins to engage reverse having left the car outside for 6 days in temperatures lower than -10C.
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SR71 makes good points.
Agreed entirely on the French legal aspect and the ‘haven’t found it enforced yet’. I’ve certainly never carried and haven’t been Gendarm’d yet.
I’ve driven to Val D’Isere at least once a year for the last 6 years so the following is based on that experience.
Resort is important as is the time you arrive/leave.
Val is quite high for the Alps so I usually expect serious snow/ice on the mountain road there and usually that’s about what I find. Lower resorts will be considerably easier.
Timing: if you’re planning on arriving/leaving on ‘transfer day’ (usually Saturday in France I believe), then they usually clear and grit the roads all the way to the resort. Also the depending on exactly what time you do the last mountain climb bit, the road surface will be virtually clear due to the traffic on it. (12-4pm seems about peak). Admittedly you’ll also be doing about 3mph stuck between coaches
Equally, I guess if you’re not going to a major resort, or you need to drive some uncleared roads to cabins hidden way up the hills, then you’re dealing with a different ball game to me and the below probably won’t help.
I’ve taken both my C5 Allroad and my B5 RS4 to Val. Both obviously have Quattro but the difference in tyres was worlds apart.
Neither had issues getting traction and moving despite being dug out of snow at the end of the week and heavy snow downpours en route. However the Allroad’s Goodyear offroad/allroad tyres on the C5 had excellent braking, steering, feel etc. They were half worn tyres at the time. By comparison, the brand spanking new Pirelli Pzero Rosso’s were like trying to run on ice: you could get going without issue, but stopping, changing direction, or any sort of sudden action caused immediate ABS kick-in and virtually no control. It was a very very slow drive! Conclusion: summer tyres really do not work AT ALL on snow/ice/freezing temperatures.
I didn’t know about the Klack & Go Quattro – looks interesting if somewhat expensive at £200+ a pair.
Next time I’m out I’ve decided that I’m going to buy a full set of 4 proper snow/winter tyres. Fit them in the UK at the beginning and end on trip and store the rest of the year. I suspect there is very little in a ski resort that a Quattro can’t handle with a proper set of snow tyres. If you know you’re going to have your car for a couple of years, might well be worth a look at.
SR71 – I’d be interested to know how many times you actually had/decided to fit your chains/socks? Great thing about snow/winter tyres is they are always there. None of this ‘get out into the cold and spend 20 mins trying to fit them just to drive the 2 miles down the road before having to take them off again’.
Finally, just a friendly word on timing. No idea when you’re thinking of driving, but we’ve got things pretty nailed down now: Friday night drive to Dover, midnight ferry across the Channel. 6-7hrs bombing it on clear (to yourself) French toll roads, arrive bottom of mountain roads about 7am ish. Roads have just been cleared for transfer day. Spend 50 minutes driving up to resort (easily 3hrs if you try that at 2pm), arrive in resort, check-in, few hours sleep, lunch then off to the empty slopes which you have to yourself for the rest of the day as everyone else is still stuck on a coach queuing to get up the mountain!
It’s a bit hardcore, and we always run at least 2 drivers a car. But if you can do it, the easy travel and extra ski time are well worth it! ï
Agreed entirely on the French legal aspect and the ‘haven’t found it enforced yet’. I’ve certainly never carried and haven’t been Gendarm’d yet.
I’ve driven to Val D’Isere at least once a year for the last 6 years so the following is based on that experience.
Resort is important as is the time you arrive/leave.
Val is quite high for the Alps so I usually expect serious snow/ice on the mountain road there and usually that’s about what I find. Lower resorts will be considerably easier.
Timing: if you’re planning on arriving/leaving on ‘transfer day’ (usually Saturday in France I believe), then they usually clear and grit the roads all the way to the resort. Also the depending on exactly what time you do the last mountain climb bit, the road surface will be virtually clear due to the traffic on it. (12-4pm seems about peak). Admittedly you’ll also be doing about 3mph stuck between coaches
Equally, I guess if you’re not going to a major resort, or you need to drive some uncleared roads to cabins hidden way up the hills, then you’re dealing with a different ball game to me and the below probably won’t help.
I’ve taken both my C5 Allroad and my B5 RS4 to Val. Both obviously have Quattro but the difference in tyres was worlds apart.
Neither had issues getting traction and moving despite being dug out of snow at the end of the week and heavy snow downpours en route. However the Allroad’s Goodyear offroad/allroad tyres on the C5 had excellent braking, steering, feel etc. They were half worn tyres at the time. By comparison, the brand spanking new Pirelli Pzero Rosso’s were like trying to run on ice: you could get going without issue, but stopping, changing direction, or any sort of sudden action caused immediate ABS kick-in and virtually no control. It was a very very slow drive! Conclusion: summer tyres really do not work AT ALL on snow/ice/freezing temperatures.
I didn’t know about the Klack & Go Quattro – looks interesting if somewhat expensive at £200+ a pair.
Next time I’m out I’ve decided that I’m going to buy a full set of 4 proper snow/winter tyres. Fit them in the UK at the beginning and end on trip and store the rest of the year. I suspect there is very little in a ski resort that a Quattro can’t handle with a proper set of snow tyres. If you know you’re going to have your car for a couple of years, might well be worth a look at.
SR71 – I’d be interested to know how many times you actually had/decided to fit your chains/socks? Great thing about snow/winter tyres is they are always there. None of this ‘get out into the cold and spend 20 mins trying to fit them just to drive the 2 miles down the road before having to take them off again’.
Finally, just a friendly word on timing. No idea when you’re thinking of driving, but we’ve got things pretty nailed down now: Friday night drive to Dover, midnight ferry across the Channel. 6-7hrs bombing it on clear (to yourself) French toll roads, arrive bottom of mountain roads about 7am ish. Roads have just been cleared for transfer day. Spend 50 minutes driving up to resort (easily 3hrs if you try that at 2pm), arrive in resort, check-in, few hours sleep, lunch then off to the empty slopes which you have to yourself for the rest of the day as everyone else is still stuck on a coach queuing to get up the mountain!
It’s a bit hardcore, and we always run at least 2 drivers a car. But if you can do it, the easy travel and extra ski time are well worth it! ï
Audi B5 RS4 Standard. Avus Silver. Debadged. Supaglass.
mylife98,
Sounds like we do the same as you...
Drive through the night to arrive early morning...only difference is I'm a snob and only take the ferry if I can't get on the Chunnel. Not that much easier but definitely faster.
Been to Val Thorens (highest resort in Europe) 4 times in the last 2 years and still never had to use my chains! But then, with the way my leave works, we're often at the beginning or end of the season so it tends not to be snowing. We also often go mid-week.
This year is somewhat different as we've just come back from Courchevel & Wengen, but nevertheless, it still wasn't snowing for any of our transits. Had a fantastic trip over the Col de Montets though.
I have driven from Folkstone to Dijon in a snowstorm in my old S2 which was a right PITA. Did a unintentional 540 on the M20 without even trying and managed not to hit anything...result!
Again, I've taken both the A3 with its 225/45/18's and the RS4 and low profiles are s**t in the snow.
I have considered the winter-tyre idea but always thought that, if its snowing heavily, even winter tyres won't mean you can dispense with chains, so I might as well avoid the extra expense.
Conversely, having never had to use the chains, one could argue that 99% of the time, winter tyres would be an excellent solution and offer much better grip for your progress up the mountain.
Klak & Go's are easy to fit although you need an allen key accessible ready to go, with some gloves.
Don't forget the law has changed with regards to having high-vis jackets accessible in the car too.
Sounds like we do the same as you...
Drive through the night to arrive early morning...only difference is I'm a snob and only take the ferry if I can't get on the Chunnel. Not that much easier but definitely faster.
Been to Val Thorens (highest resort in Europe) 4 times in the last 2 years and still never had to use my chains! But then, with the way my leave works, we're often at the beginning or end of the season so it tends not to be snowing. We also often go mid-week.
This year is somewhat different as we've just come back from Courchevel & Wengen, but nevertheless, it still wasn't snowing for any of our transits. Had a fantastic trip over the Col de Montets though.
I have driven from Folkstone to Dijon in a snowstorm in my old S2 which was a right PITA. Did a unintentional 540 on the M20 without even trying and managed not to hit anything...result!
Again, I've taken both the A3 with its 225/45/18's and the RS4 and low profiles are s**t in the snow.
I have considered the winter-tyre idea but always thought that, if its snowing heavily, even winter tyres won't mean you can dispense with chains, so I might as well avoid the extra expense.
Conversely, having never had to use the chains, one could argue that 99% of the time, winter tyres would be an excellent solution and offer much better grip for your progress up the mountain.
Klak & Go's are easy to fit although you need an allen key accessible ready to go, with some gloves.
Don't forget the law has changed with regards to having high-vis jackets accessible in the car too.
58 C6 RS6 Stage 2+
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
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58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
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2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
I have SS+ on my Avant so I was thinking of snow socks all round just in case I hit snow..... Unfortunately I don't think they qualify with the authorities!?!
I have been stopped in the run up to Val D'Isere before and not allowed any further up the mountain until I fitted chains!? Wonder if they would let me through with 4 socks and quattro?? (prob not with UK plates on the car)
SR71 any idea what your total fuel cost was??
I have been stopped in the run up to Val D'Isere before and not allowed any further up the mountain until I fitted chains!? Wonder if they would let me through with 4 socks and quattro?? (prob not with UK plates on the car)
SR71 any idea what your total fuel cost was??
I live in S. Wales, (which actually adds almost 500 miles extra to the trip) but I really only consider the journey to have begun when I get off the Chunnel at Calais...
It'd be a b*tch to get that far and not get up the mountain for the sake of the chains. One solution is just to buy the cheapest set you can find, throw them in the car and hope you don't need them. But the day they check, they'll be checking because you really do need them!
In the A3 I can get 600 miles out of a tank cruising at ~75 indicated. Calais - Courchevel is pretty much bang on 600 miles (so 1200 miles round trip once you hit France) but I fill up at the bottom of the mountain to avoid the silly mountain prices.
In the RS4, 250 miles cruising at an ~100 indicated.
Effectively, the exchange rate means the Euro is equal to the pound at the moment. Thats the killer...I just avoid thinking about it!
I budget 150 Euros for tolls. You can't really get round that cost unless you've got time to take the slow roads but, personally, I don't mind paying to use the French autoroutes... they're brilliant.
It'd be a b*tch to get that far and not get up the mountain for the sake of the chains. One solution is just to buy the cheapest set you can find, throw them in the car and hope you don't need them. But the day they check, they'll be checking because you really do need them!
In the A3 I can get 600 miles out of a tank cruising at ~75 indicated. Calais - Courchevel is pretty much bang on 600 miles (so 1200 miles round trip once you hit France) but I fill up at the bottom of the mountain to avoid the silly mountain prices.
In the RS4, 250 miles cruising at an ~100 indicated.
Effectively, the exchange rate means the Euro is equal to the pound at the moment. Thats the killer...I just avoid thinking about it!
I budget 150 Euros for tolls. You can't really get round that cost unless you've got time to take the slow roads but, personally, I don't mind paying to use the French autoroutes... they're brilliant.
58 C6 RS6 Stage 2+
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58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
Me too normally, but changed this year due to them only having one tunnel open - which means they're only running trains every 2-5hrs at night.SR71 wrote:mylife98,
...only difference is I'm a snob and only take the ferry if I can't get on the Chunnel. Not that much easier but definitely faster.
We turned-up at Calais about 3-4am to be told the next train was 9am. 10 min sprint to the ferry port and 120 euro later and we were on a ferry and back in the UK by 6am: having slept for an hr for the remaining drivers and 4 pints better off for those who had pulled thier driving shift already!
Showed us the flip side - 1hr on train (inc loading/unloading) or 1.5hrs on ferry, where you can eat, relax, sleep, drink, smoke etc. And the ferries are a lot more frequent at the moment!
Yeah that's a good call on the lumi jacket. Although I do have a professional yellow roadworks flashing light carried as standard coutesy of a student prank a few years ago.... highly effective
Audi B5 RS4 Standard. Avus Silver. Debadged. Supaglass.
Interesting - did you have them and fit them or were you stuck?Jodes wrote: I have been stopped in the run up to Val D'Isere before and not allowed any further up the mountain until I fitted chains!? Wonder if they would let me through with 4 socks and quattro?? (prob not with UK plates on the car)
If the weather was really that bad (EXTREAM?!), my stubborn side says we'd head back to Bourg-saint-maurice and piss it up for a night before heading back up the next day. But the % chance of the weather being that bad??
Pretty sure you wouldn't find chains for our cars in BSM?!
Where do you stay in Val Jodes? I know a lot of the staff up there this year - Moris, Dicks etc. Give me a shout if you're back out.
Had friends ski ValT this year - never been there myself but great reports.
Audi B5 RS4 Standard. Avus Silver. Debadged. Supaglass.
At the risk of going slightly off topic, Val T is great if you have to do your snow sports at either end of the season, because its altitude means, hopefully, a long season with guaranteed snow. Thats pretty much the only reason we've had to go there...
Its compromised if the weather closes in because there aren't any trees.
I always check snow-forecast.com for the weather running up to a trip. Great site. I get their weekly updates too.
Your TMC will work in France, but as usual, you have to make educated decisions about how "in date" the info is...I prefer to gamble on this information rather than the WWW sites with French road info.
It was pretty good at informing you of fog-related delays recently, but I avoided taking the suggested alternative routes. I hate "following a crowd"!
Get a good credit card for the Peage's....something like a Nationwide card with no charges for foreign use. It'll save you about ~£25 if you spend £1K abroad.
Not much but its more the satisfaction of giving the banks another kicking for their stupidity...not that, of course, that is going to help us get out of this mess....
Its compromised if the weather closes in because there aren't any trees.
I always check snow-forecast.com for the weather running up to a trip. Great site. I get their weekly updates too.
Your TMC will work in France, but as usual, you have to make educated decisions about how "in date" the info is...I prefer to gamble on this information rather than the WWW sites with French road info.
It was pretty good at informing you of fog-related delays recently, but I avoided taking the suggested alternative routes. I hate "following a crowd"!
Get a good credit card for the Peage's....something like a Nationwide card with no charges for foreign use. It'll save you about ~£25 if you spend £1K abroad.
Not much but its more the satisfaction of giving the banks another kicking for their stupidity...not that, of course, that is going to help us get out of this mess....
58 C6 RS6 Stage 2+
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
58 C6 A6 Allroad 2.7 TDi
Previous:
2000 B5 S4 MRC 550 Saloon
2007 B7 RS4 Saloon
1994 S2 Coupe
I have seen
Last March in Flaine, France it was snowing heavily and the G were stopping cars coming up the mountains and forcing them to fit their snow chains - otherwise it was back down the mountain they went.......
so beware , the french do check!
Off to Flaine with the family in 4 weeks - can't wait
, although the plane and coach will be taking the strain!
so beware , the french do check!
Off to Flaine with the family in 4 weeks - can't wait
, although the plane and coach will be taking the strain!I have never yet run into conditions where an aggressive set of snow tires (like Bridgestone Blizzaks) was not enough to conquer the weather. I have never, ever had to use chains on an AWD vehicle. Disclaimer: I am in Colorado in the US, so I am somewhat familiar with snowy, mountainous conditions. But the snow there in France may be made of something weird, like Teflon.SR71 wrote:I have considered the winter-tyre idea but always thought that, if its snowing heavily, even winter tyres won't mean you can dispense with chains, so I might as well avoid the extra expense.
Re: I have seen
Agreed - I've been stopped 2 years running and made to put snow-chains on by the G. This was on the way up to Courcheval and they stop you at St Bon (1100m).s3marc wrote:Last March in Flaine, France it was snowing heavily and the G were stopping cars coming up the mountains and forcing them to fit their snow chains - otherwise it was back down the mountain they went.......
so beware , the french do check!
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PetrolDave
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The snow is the same but the Gendarmes enforce the rules.Necros wrote:But the snow there in France may be made of something weird, like Teflon.
A relative who lives in Hoboken tells a tale of being told to put chains on by a policeman in upper New York state - on the rear wheels of a front wheel drive car!
Heh, that's hilarious. Here, only large trucks (tractor-trailer types) are required to have chains up in the mountains. If you were driving something with Quattro with chains, people would look at you askance.PetrolDave wrote:The snow is the same but the Gendarmes enforce the rules.Necros wrote:But the snow there in France may be made of something weird, like Teflon.
A relative who lives in Hoboken tells a tale of being told to put chains on by a policeman in upper New York state - on the rear wheels of a front wheel drive car!
From the looks of the news at the moment, though, it appears London seems to be having a bit of a go at replicating a French ski resort!
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