Anyone ever considered emigrating?

[Turbo Joe]

Firstly, no fossils, no fossils count as evidence for evolution, none. If you took a fossil into a court of law and said "Judge, this fossil is the ancestor of everything living today", they would quite frankly laugh in your face. There is no fossil record, there are a bunch of bones in the dirt. You put your pre conceived interpretation on the fossils. They don't come with a stamp saying "made x number of gazillion years ago bc, dinosaur. Your link still doesn't explain from an evolutionary standpoint what catastrophe occured in the evolution timetable to cause fossilization of these creatures since you acknowledge that they need to be buried rapidly(Noah's Flood- Thounsands of feet of sediment would be deposited rapidly upon all creatures that had drowned).

Secondly, you don't need millions of years for things to fossilize and evolutionists know this but the won't come out and admit it
http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=13

http://images.google.co.uk/images?gbv=2 ... fied+Trees

There is no way that a tree could stand there for millions of years waiting for the sediments to form around it. A dead tree will stand for at the most 10 years before it falls. No chance for your millions of years. Sorry guv, the trees are prove positive of a sudden catastrophe and rapid burial with a few weeks or months and a worldwide flood is the only explaination. Petrified(fossilised) trees in the upright position are a serious and nagging problem for evolution.

Also with fossils, you can't prove that the fossil had any kids, all you know is it died. No sorry mate, fossils dont and can't count.

I'll be back to deal with the rest!

[CliveH]

Great debate this

I guess someone should apologise for hijacking the thread, so I'll do that - "sorry!" - although we're already in Off Topic so hopefully won't get into too much trouble. But perhaps the title should be changed to "Anyone ever considered the God Delusion?"...

I'll be back too, when I get a minute...

[Turbo Joe]

Your reasoning on determining right and wrong from an evolutionary standpoint is a cop out. Quite frankly if evolution is true, there is no way of determining right from wrong, its every man for himself, the strongest survives, might makes right. Also you cannot use genes and chemicals to explain emotions like love, hate, anger, happiness, envy etc. These emotions and many others clearly run deeper than a body full of chemicals and biologicals. The fact is people know it is wrong to kill, steal, lie etc. That is already built in to a person's conscience. The question is where did that information come from? I have no problem answering that question(Exodus 20 - The 10 Commandments). This is however a serious problem for the evo theory, how do we transfer information from chemicals into thoughts and actions if we are just a bunch of biologicals and chemicals evo boy?

Also, you have been brainwashed yourself as rocks are not dated with any dating methods, rocks are dated according to what fossils are contained in them, but then they turn right around with the same brush and date the fossil by what layer of rock they are found in, circular reasoning mate, an honest evolutionist will admit this. One evolutionist said " The rocks date the fossils but the fossils date the rocks more accurately". The cheese has clearly fallen out of these guy's sandwich. By the way, your holy geologic column was made up in the 1830's long before the 1st radio dating method(carbon 14 dating - 1947+)was invented. So my question to you sir is, how did they date the rocks for 117 years if your notion about radio metric dating being used to date rocks is correct ?

As I mention before man has the capacity to get himself out of the mess that he is in without ANY super natural intervention. He just needs to start using his brain instead of focusing on what is in his pants all the time. This is man's mess, not God's so let man clean it up. Suffering and injuries in the world are because of man, what has God got to do with any of it....nothing.

Confirming the bible via science - Sybiosis relationships where certain animals require certain plants and certain plants require certain animals. For example termites eat cellulose but they cannot digest it. The bacteria in their stomachs digest and break down the cellulose. Now the termites cannot live with the bacteria and the bacteria cannot live outside the termites. Question- If evolution is true, which one evolved first and how did it survive without the other?

Extra biblical references, I supplied you with at least 2 already, please read the previous posts.

Contradictions: Genesis 1 and 2 do not disagree if you would read it properly which I know you didn't.

Genesis 1:

Day 3 - Plants are made.
Day 4 - Sun, moon and stars
Day 5 - Sea creatures and birds made
Day 6 - Land animals made and THEN MAN.

Then man is placed in the garden. Genesis 2 is just an expansion of what happened on DAY 6 IN THE GARDEN ONLY, so there is no contradiction with the order of creation, read the data properly. The events which take place in Gen 2 are referring to what happened in the Garden of Eden only.

As for the beasts, you've just erected a strawman. Noah took some in by sevens(where are you getting the paris from in this?) and some in by 2s which would have been pairied. There is no mixing up of the story, pairs were not mentioned in the gathering together of the 7s, only the 2s. Yet again, not reading the data properly.

The is no contradiction between John and the rest of the Gospels, each gospel choose to expound more on different events that took place and leave others out knowing that it would be covered by another writer. John gives us a detailed look at what Jesus said to his disciples and the last supper whereas the other gospels don't. 1 gospel expanding on a particular event and another not does not put the other in error. If we both witness a car accident and when you are questioned you can only give the colour of the car, but I can tell what car it was, the registration, the make, the model, this doesn't invaldate you account. That type of thinking is flawed logic, it doesn't make sense. Again read the data properly and put things in context.

The LORD is good, he does have mercy to all but that scripture in Jeremiah is God declaring judgement upon his people after at least 1000 years since they came out of Egypt for having forsaking him and served other gods. 1000 years seems to be quite tolerant in my books. You need to check out these other gods and see the horrific sacrifical ceremonies that the children of Israel turned to, then you will see why after 1000 years plus God had had enough. So Yes God is merciful, but don't expect to rebel against him for ever and him not eventually turn his attention to you and reward you for your actions. The bottom line is man just wants to do what he wants without receiving the consequences and S4- Tan, you are no different, you just want to be a badboy forever without ramifications. Not in this world mate.

I'll be back to deal with the rest later, stay tuned.

[JohnW]

I have to ask.

S4tan and Blower, what do you guys do for a living ?
And How do you know all this stuff ??

Yes this is waaaay off topic, but its also one great debate. The sheer depth of your arguments is astounding, and I for one am learning lots

Keep it coming

[jimbogrey]

Sh1t didnt realise the time should have left work 30 minutes ago too busy reading this thread.... great stuff keep it up.

Blower surely the 10 commandments were the first sign that the destiny of the world was to be controlled by a small number of veryn clever and manipulative people would create a doctrine and scare us into believing that we would meet a terrible end if we did not comply.

[quattronutter]

there was most definitely a great flood,several in fact,one reason may be every once in a while[thousands of years]the earth tips on its axis this is at the same point the earth lines up with the sun and some other planets...this causes severe solar flares, massive floods,and lots more besides,do your research if you want more info on this subject,the most worrying thing is the earth is due another tilt in december 2012

[CliveH]

Blower surely the 10 commandments were the first sign that the destiny of the world was to be controlled by a small number of very clever and manipulative people would create a doctrine and scare us into believing that we would meet a terrible end if we did not comply.

Absolutely - religion is a very effective scaremongering tactic - a recent survey in the UK found that "the church" is a stronger deterrent than the police and that many fear "god" more than the strong arm of the law

[Jarv]

the earth is due another tilt in december 2012

Couldn't bring it forward to just before the Olympics could you?

@ John, Jules is an IT manager (that's right isnlt it Jules, lol) and I think Blower may be the Archbishop of Canterbury.

[CliveH]

New Orleans was rife with witchcraft before their flood and they got it big time. Like I said before, God will not be mocked.

Seems like another good example of your charming god! If this is so, please explain what all the other poor people living in New Orleans did to deserve to be wiped out 'big time'...

For starters who told them to build a city on ground that is below sea level? Seems a bit foolish to me.

What poor people sir? Those who kept their mouths shut and never voiced oppostion to what was going on?

At first, I thought you were having a bit of a laugh and winding up young S4TAN, but you really do believe this, don't you?!

Who told them to build a city on ground that is below sea level?

So this makes them sinners does it??

Who told the population of the Netherlands to build their cities below sea level - are they that stupid that they deserve to be wiped out by the almighty?? Or are there too many Christians north of the big rivers?

What has any of this got to do with the unfortunate citizens of New Orleans who, according to you, "got it big time"???!!

What poor people?

What poor people???!!! Isn't it bloody obvious?? All those "innocent" people who died in New Orleans! (Innocent in the context of your belief that your god wiped out the city to punish all those who allegedly practiced witchcraft.

Now, you still haven't answered my question - what warnings??

[spen]

I tried not to bite....

It must have been a big ark..... Bigger than anything we could build today. It must have been fuckin massive to fit all those dinosaur babies plus food inside (assuming food wasn't all the other pairs of animals)?

Not to mention herd animals don't survive in twos. What about creatures that reproduce asexually, did he just take one, or two to be safe?


It's obvious the whateveritis we're in was created by the Spaghedeity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[CliveH]

Folks are too worried about paying the mortgage and getting the latest gadgets to focus on what is going on and in most cases the people love it and would have it no other way. Well folks are gonna pay for their willful ignorance.

Do you have special permission for "SKN remap, K&N Filter, Miltek CatBack Twin Jet- BHP under Construction!!!!" ?

[Turbo Joe]

War Or Peace?

Moses was singing a song of victory because God had just delivered him and the Jews from the Egyptians. God defended his people, what did you expect God to do, sit back and let his people get slaughtered. It goes to stand with anyone including yourself as we saw a while back, folks are cool but if you get on the wrong side of them, expect a swift recompence. We haven't forgotten how you stormed off in a huff from this site not so long ago sir. You're also forgetting that God gave the Egyptians ample chances beforehand(Read Exodus 5 to Exodus 12). So it still stands, God is peaceful and merciful......but like any human being, don't get on the wrong side of him. Te most obvious point here also is that these are THE WORDS OF MOSES DESCRIBING GOD in reference to the event that has just taken place, this is not the way God describes himself.

Father Of Joseph:

No contradiction at all here. So what, a person can only be known by one name and not have other names that people would refer to him by?????? Come on now, please. If we have nick names today, why could they not have them in their time?

Empty Tomb:

No contradiction here either. Like I stated before one gospel will typically give more information about an event than the others. It just so happens that the gospel of Mark gives us more of a complete attendance list than the others. More detail in one area does not nullify the other accounts, flawed logic sir.


Jesus Equal Or Lesser Than The Father:

The "One" Jesus was referring to there was a one of unison, togetherness, essence, if you like the same team. However God the father is greater than Christ in that he is the last and final authority. Authority and unison are totally different sir, just as you have 11 players on a football team but one player is greater in authority than the rest, the captain. Sorry sir, no contradiction there, try again.

Which 1st, beasts or man:

I answered this one earlier and gave you a complete breakdown of the creation week and the events that took place in the garden and what order they took place, please refer to one of the earlier posts.

The Number Of The Beasts On The Ark:

No contradiction here either. Whether clean or unclean, they all went in by pairs, whether by twos or by sevens. I can clearly read the data, whether by sevens, MALE AND FEMALE(Pairs....hello) or by twos, MALE AND FEMALE(Pairs again...hello). It would have helped you sir if you were actually familiar with the bible instead of just jumping onto somebody elses bandwagon(I know where these so - called contradictions have come from).

How many stalls and horsemen:

Yet again, you haven't taken the time out to read the data properly sir. The horsemen are 12000 and are seperate from the horses,chariots and the guys that would be riding IN THE CHARIOTS. Hmmm, lets see now, 40000 stalls OF HORSES FOR HIS CHARIOTS vs 4000 stalls FOR HORSES AND CHARIOTS. hmmm, if we do the math, 40000/4000 = 10 MEN PER CHARIOT. The guys in the chariots are not the guys on the horses alone, there is a clear distinction which is why the horsemen are mentioned serperately. Sorry sir, try again.

Is it folly to be wise of not:

I don't see the point the person is trying to bring out here because the word folly isn't in any of these scriptures. Thelast scripture is referring to people like yourself who expel out WORLDLY WISDOM in an attempt to dodge God and his commandments. this is a clear reference to man's wisdom, not the wisdom that comes down from God out of heaven, big difference. So yes it is folly to get wisdom, earthly wisdom from men which is corrupt, that is folly.

Human vs Ghostly pregnancy:

This is ridiculous, will you pull anything out of the hat just to save your precious theory?Your theory is dead bro, turn off the life support, its finished. Will you still attempt to revive and feed a skeleton? David lived over 1000 years before Christ, it is obvious that this is referring the the family tree through which Christ would come by. Holy mackeral.


The sins of the father:

If you would have read the whole chapter, you would have grasped the context of the verse. This is simply talking about the pending doom for Satan and his followers(yourself). The fathers is a reference to the devils(fallen angels) that influenced certain men to sin. These are followers who never repented and still decided to do evil regardless. Also, the word children is not always a reference to kids. John used it serveral times in his writings, he was using it in reference to people young in the faith of Christ.

The bat is not a bird:

The bat is not a bird according the the classification systems that have been devised by HUMANS. As far as the bible is concerned, it is a bird. You cannot superimpose a 200 year old classification system against a book that out dates it more than 10 times over. God classes that bat in a different way than we do, its simple. Just because we decided to put it in the mammal class because it is warm blooded and doesn't have feathers, that is no negative reflection on the word of God. We call it a mammal, God calls it a bird, big deal. Sorry no contradiction again sir.

Rabbits do not chew the cud:

Chew the cud simply means to "eat that which is already eaten" or "chewed" as you put it which is exactly the meaning that you gave but you tried to stretched the meaning and throw in you own interpretation. So the rabbit does chew the cud because the droppings have already been eaten. Yet again a case of a scoffer trying to draw his own parameters and borders to limit which answers can be given.

Insects do not have 4 feet:

Insects have 4 feet and 2 hands. I suggest you watch a housefly cleaning its face if you get the oppotunity or a spider weaving a web. Yet again, it is down to classification preferences, not down to error on the bible's part.

3 evidences against the evolution theory -

The law called "The Conservation Of Angular Momentum" states that if an object is spinning in a certain direction say clockwise, any pieces that fly off will spin clockwise in the same direction. If the big bang theory is true and everything exploded from thsi little tiny dot into space, why do we have at least 2 planets spinning backwards. Not only that but some of the moons orbiting these planets are spinning backwards also. Kinda hard on your big bang theory.

The moon is receding from the earth at a certain rate each year, we are slowly losing the moon, this means that if you go back in time it used to be closer. This begins to be a problem for the evolutionist because 1.2 MILLION years ago the moon would have been touching the earth, everything on this planet would have drowned 4- 5 times per day due to the huge tidal changes as the moon affects the tides, and evo boys want to claim that the earth is 4.6 BILLION YEARS OLD, you better think that one over. this is based on the current observed reccesion rate.

When granite is heated up and cooled back down, it doesn't form back into granite again. The fact that we have granite is proof positive that the earth was never a hot molton mass otherwise we wouldn't have any granite period. The bible says that the earth was created under water which means the earth at its origin was cold. The biblical standpoint does not have a problem accomodating the granite issue.

I think the most obvious point for creation is that everywhere you look there is design, regardless of what level you are looking at. I have never seen design come from random chance and chaos, that is like saying that if you run a hurricane through a junkyard, you can assemble a volkswagen. If you look at a building , you say that there was a builder, if you look at a painting, you automatically conclude that there was a painter and when you see a creation(which you are living in)the automatic conclusion should be that there must be a creator. By the way in regards to the human body, how can blind chance make a seeing eye?

The burden of proof is on the evolutionist not on the creationist because I am not asking for my religion to be taught in schools at tax payer expense but the evolutionist is. Plus just disproving evolution(which is a doddle to do) automatically proves creation as there are no other options available. Either God made the world or it made itself.

I suggest you lay down the rest of those supposed contradictions as none of them will be a problem for me whatsoever.

Please excuse any spelling mistakes sir,lol.

[s4woody]

i think i,ll get the stig from top gear to drive my car against you blower..cos i,d rather you throw lightening and brimstone at him when you lose...
but seriously..i,d like both S4TAN and blower to give the james whale show a call on talk sport..that would make for a very good radio show..

[shineydave]

so does this mean Julian is emigrating then?

[jeffw]

Evolution is not religion and does not require blind faith. Evolution is a scientific theory which has been tested by many scientists. Until a better theory is presented and subsequently tested , the Evolution theory by Darwin stands as the human races understanding of how the planets inhabitants came to be as they are.

Creation is religious dogma which does not stand up to scientific investigation. Great story but has no more basis in fact than does any other fairy tale.

I respect you right to believe in your religion but religious zealots of any creed be they Christian, Jewish, Islamic etc are scary people.