New Crew Members

[Andiroo]

I may just have a number of pointers Phil, but as posted in the Crew Forum a few days ago, it may not be pleasant for some to hear

Cheers,

Andiroo

[GrahamS4]

As this site is an asset to all of us, I'd be interested in what the core "issues" are. Post or PM.

I think for one jr needs to think whatever he wishes to himself but should seriously review what he posts. He rarely manages more than one reasonable post without blatantly offending someone.

I doubt anyone could be so rude and offensive continually in person, so the impression I am left with is that you normally behave like that with someone or something you have had enough of, dont respect or dont care about.

I think RS246 is great, the site is good, the self moderation approach is good but is is ultimately the people (members) that make it. People that share on the fourm but do so much outside of the forum too, helping each other as well as attending events etc.

I just see a mighty shame when all this good is represented by founding member who cannot manage a one line post probably less than once a month that is polite or helpful.

A forum has to be for the members and for the good of the members and it's topic.

Now that is direct, but at least I hope it was not short, crude or offensive.

[simple1]

The word 'member' would imply a subscription and voting rights. As this is not a club, it does not have members, it has users who dont have voting rights. But as a Forum, it gives everybody a right to use it providing they are not offensive or insulting. Its also is a place where from time to time, some users express views about dubious subject matter or head off into personal attacks which really have no place here. I dont think it is a lack of respect which triggers some responses, its frustration that a small group of individuals are hellbent on rocking the boat and trying to assert thier authority where it is not required. I am sure if you meet JR, you will realise that after 5 years of running the site, he is a decent man with strong moral values but somewhat jaded by the constant sniping that goes on.
The same can be said about some of the users, very polite face to face but not fully in control when at the keyboard or maybe just that little bit braver or confrontational. All this causes friction which is not really what any of us read the site for.
We have tried self modarating, and the site quickly tumbles into a free for all where traders do thier own thing, users end up falling out amongst themselves trying to establish a 'pecking order' and the mods then have to step in and mop up the blood. Why create something then ask for others to shape and direct it. Does not make much sense. Nor does selling something that is healthy and viable just so the new owners can assert thier authority which they have so far been unable to establish.

[GrahamS4]

I thought to myself wouldn't it be funny if the first reply was from Simple1. A sort of out of the frying pan into the fire type situation. Having read your response, it's actually not a case of that at all. I think most of your points are right. I note a distinct change in the style of your posts Simon, perhaps others need to too?

I have been previously assured by someone I trust and respect that John is a nice bloke (sadly we have not met in person), which is why my point is more, perhaps how he chooses to vent his frustration isn't right. Maybe something more constructive than a sniping comment or stepping right back so the frustration isn't there in the first place.

As for the not a club so we are not members. Well partly agree. Call us users if you wish. I do know without users the forum would be useless. I also know from direct expereince of the otherside of the fence that it's common practice and really the only practical way to operate a forum for staff/crew not to explain every move, especially moderating decisions. It would be an endless time wasting debate otherwise. But there have been multiple changes of crew here. New staff/crew members are normally (common forum practice) announced and this thread clearly shows polite, good willed, friendly posts up until the point someone decided some out the blue name calling/humiliation was in order!

Run the crew, moderate the site, no we don't need to know why you thought the talk of gardening in the RS6 remap thread was removed without notice or the graphic video of a Iraqi hanging was removed from the off topic section, but if you announce something, be prepared for responses. If you want to repond, please do so in a fashion that either explains something or is at least not offensive. Or not respond at all perhaps. Or use an announcement which cannot be responded to if that is your intention.

Just my thoughts.

I really have little personal issue with any of the site, nor it's "users" and long may it live.

I just find if anything lets it down, it's not the actual running or moderating, its can be the snappy off the cuff remarks from those setting the example.

[VARSITY]

I may just have a number of pointers Phil, but as posted in the Crew Forum a few days ago, it may not be pleasant for some to hear

Cheers,

Andiroo

But none the less should be discussed, maybe not so in open forum.

I agree with Simple1, yes I did say agree, that some of the users find it easier to be abusive or brave behind the keyboard. When we get together there seems to be a completely different atmosphere and we get on.

There are mo easy answers or fixes but the site is a great one and hope to see it develop and grow. New sponsors, more projects and meeting for all to get involved.

Some fresh crew would help eas the tension. Dare I say it, Julian, Graham, Clive or even Paz would been fine choices.

[CliveH]

Clive
you really are a silly man
jr

That's an interesting (if not restrained) observation John

and how did you arrive at that conclusion...?

Something to do with that movie you made about American cultural learnings making kazakstan glorious? You did look a bit of a tit TBH

Adam - now that is QUALITY!

you're not referring to this are you...?

[S4TAN]

its frustration that a small group of individuals are hellbent on rocking the boat and trying to assert thier authority where it is not required

Name the names, and give examples of this type of activity please.

I haven't noticed anyone trying to "assert authority" except certain Mods.

I agree strongly with Graham about leading by example - the approach of certain mods in their responses to "users" who have done nothing more than express an interest and ask a civil question about the running of the site leaves a lot to be desired - were the "users" to follow such examples then all responses would be laconic, blunt and desultory.

The same can be said about some of the users, very polite face to face but not fully in control when at the keyboard or maybe just that little bit braver or confrontational

Speaking for myself I can assure you I am the same in person as I am 'behind the keyboard'. I'm also pleased to say that for every single user of this site that I've met in person they are the same face to face as they are in 'cyber-space'.

[johneroberts]

Please accept my apologies if i have offended anyone, i will be careful in what i post from now on, i have never tried to come over as a "Asshole"
Trust me i have the site intrest at heart, i am always open constructive ideas and Criticism.
Please PM me with any concerns you may have with RS246.
jr

[S4TAN]

Some fresh crew would help eas the tension. Dare I say it, Julian, Graham, Clive or even Paz would been fine choices.

Oh, and PS: Me crew? Definitely a terrible idea - I am not Moderator material, far from it. Graham and Clive on the other hand would make excellent Crew members IMHO. (Paz sadly not though - his English is shocking )

[PhilT]

Great feedback guys, afterall it's hard to fix something when you don't exactly know what's wrong.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

This is supposed to be a happy place

[DavidT]

Please accept my apologies if i have offended anyone, i will be careful in what i post from now on, i have never tried to come over as a "Asshole"
Trust me i have the site intrest at heart, i am always open constructive ideas and Criticism.
Please PM me with any concerns you may have with RS246.
jr

I want to add a little to this. John is a straightforward, genuine man with a good sense of humour who has put an awful lot of work into setting up & managing this site. I am 100% sure there has been no intention on his part to cause offence or even just wind people up.

The thing that seems to have changed is that he posts less these days and fewer people on the site know him, so I think some posts have been perceived differently. It is not something I'd even noticed in that way until it was pointed out to me, I think because I know him pretty well.

Anyway, here's to us moving on from here with this website that we all enjoy & want to develop further

[S4TAN]

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

In true Smashy and Nicey style: "Wise words mate!"

[CliveH]

I haven't had much time on the site this week (and don't really have time today), so I hadn't seen the stuff that had been posted up this morning when I responded to Adam.

So in brief :-

I have met John in person and he IS a nice bloke. I will not attempt to assess why some of his comments on here are rude or offensive - it will serve no useful purpose;

I too agree, yes "agree", with some of what simple1 says, although I would also say that the member/club debate serves no useful purpose;

VARSITY recently suggested a vote for Crew members, which was not well received amongst the (then) Crew members. For what it's worth, my vote would be :-

PhilT
DavidT
Andiroo
MarkB
GrahamS4 (as well as being a nice bloke and level headed, he also has the experience of being a moderator on another forum)

I recognise that Phil and Andy are busy with other things right now, but hopefully they will return to the fold in the future.

I guess John and Phil have the ultimate say but it is becoming very clear to us mere "users" that things are not quite right as they stand.

[VARSITY]

I haven't had much time on the site this week (and don't really have time today), so I hadn't seen the stuff that had been posted up this morning when I responded to Adam.

So in brief :-

I have met John in person and he IS a nice bloke. I will not attempt to assess why some of his comments on here are rude or offensive - it will serve no useful purpose;

I too agree, yes "agree", with some of what simple1 says, although I would also say that the member/club debate serves no useful purpose;

VARSITY recently suggested a vote for Crew members, which was not well received amongst the (then) Crew members. For what it's worth, my vote would be :-

PhilT
DavidT
Andiroo
MarkB
GrahamS4 (as well as being a nice bloke and level headed, he also has the experience of being a moderator on another forum)

I recognise that Phil and Andy are busy with other things right now, but hopefully they will return to the fold in the future.

I guess John and Phil have the ultimate say but it is becoming very clear to us mere "users" that things are not quite right as they stand.

[simple1]

The user/member tittle is only that, a tittle. The rights of the users/members to demand change is therefore a request rather than a mandate, which any respectful team will look at and discuss anyway.
As to whom the existing team thinks suitable would surely be something we discuss behind closed doors rather than ' on open channel' and will be done I can asure you. Whether you like the outcome remains to be seen.