Known clutch failure issue for B7 RS4 ?

[simple1]

Is quite interesting, that on the Audi driving experience, they ask you to get the car rolling before doing a bannzi start, ' to protect the cluth'...... have not had any issues with my own car but the driving experience car I drove slipped like mad.

[sonny]

what are the prices of RS4 clutches these days any way?

[Dom81]

It was interesting at an Audi driving experience day at Silverstone recently they were very protective of the RS4 clutches repeatedly stressing that we must be careful not to ride the clutch

Agreed. I did the thing a year ago, and one of the Audi instructors said that you can slip / ride the clutch twice - the first time and the last time...

[richmay76]

Back from the dealers and all *seems* OK but just want to check something with you guys...

This time (second replacement) the clutch was bled. Now the thing is like a jack-in-the box on steroids and first is also quite tough to shift into from neutral (subsequent gears are smoother as I shift up). I kinda like it but as it was never like this from new, I just want to check that it isn't possible to actually make things too tight and jumpy with the gears; to wind it up too much, as it were.

Apologies for the amateur analysis but I hope it makes some sort of sense?

[audijohn]

Back from the dealers and all *seems* OK but just want to check something with you guys...

This time (second replacement) the clutch was bled. Now the thing is like a jack-in-the box on steroids and first is also quite tough to shift into from neutral (subsequent gears are smoother as I shift up). I kinda like it but as it was never like this from new, I just want to check that it isn't possible to actually make things too tight and jumpy with the gears; to wind it up too much, as it were.

Apologies for the amateur analysis but I hope it makes some sort of sense?

It should be "Smooth in operation" throughout the gears, if it's not Take it back.

[AntoRS4]

seems it's a real problem..... take a look at the end of the movie 7'00'' ->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE63nWdyjdo

[kaisersolsay]

Hi there,

I have a similar problem with my B6 S4.

When launching her from a stand still, she slips. When slipping the clutch in doing 30mph, giving a bit of rev and dropping the clutch she slips and smokes.

My dealership currently has her just now and say they can not find fault with it. They conducted the usually tests - handbrake on and pulling away in gear. I told them today that they had to drive her and slip the clutch manually before she will slip.....said they would try it on Monday when the technicians are back in the workshop. Said they would replace under warranty if required. She only has 22k on the clock and is a 2004 model.

Will let you know what they say on Monday.

[cmathis]

I have to tell you....after reading all this AFTER taking delivery of my RS4 (got it 1 week ago), I'm kind of floored. With not matching up to the advertised HP and Clutches burning out, I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have paid nearly 80K for this car.

I went through this with my 2001 Cobra. Ford recalled all 1999 Cobra's because they were underpowered, so they made no 2000 model (I own a 2001 model) with 320 advertised HP.

Now I order from a company I NEVER thought would falsely advertise HP figures, and every other person I come across says they are not 420HP. Now we've got a clutch issue. When you put 420 hp under the hood, you better have a tranni to hold up to it....which the Cobra did (up to 650 hp). Why would they not put a tranni able to hold up? Btw, it's not the clutch that's the problem, it's the transmission as a whole. What are the SPECS on the transmission included on our B7 RS4's? It should be able to take dumps from 5K like it's nothing. The half shafts should break before the clutch. What am I driving.... a piece of porcelain?

Sorry to vent, but as a new Audi owner, I expected much more reliability considering there are such small numbers of this car, and nearly 50K more than the Cobra. I NEVER heard of 2001 Cobra's killing transmissions, and there were nearly 7K of them.

And the current HP on the Cobra is around 550HP, and the tranni is holding up to every bit of abuse I can throw at it on the track. It's a track only car as I'm an open track instructor. The RS4 is my daily driver and won't see much abuse, but I'll definitely take it out for a few hot laps on off weekends at the closest track to me.

Pics of my car.... http://www.cbslimited.com/rs4.php

Craig

[alex_123_fra]

I have to tell you....after reading all this AFTER taking delivery of my RS4 (got it 1 week ago), I'm kind of floored. With not matching up to the advertised HP and Clutches burning out, I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have paid nearly 80K for this car.

I went through this with my 2001 Cobra. Ford recalled all 1999 Cobra's because they were underpowered, so they made no 2000 model (I own a 2001 model) with 320 advertised HP.

Now I order from a company I NEVER thought would falsely advertise HP figures, and every other person I come across says they are not 420HP. Now we've got a clutch issue. When you put 420 hp under the hood, you better have a tranni to hold up to it....which the Cobra did (up to 650 hp). Why would they not put a tranni able to hold up? Btw, it's not the clutch that's the problem, it's the transmission as a whole. What are the SPECS on the transmission included on our B7 RS4's? It should be able to take dumps from 5K like it's nothing. The half shafts should break before the clutch. What am I driving.... a piece of porcelain?

Sorry to vent, but as a new Audi owner, I expected much more reliability considering there are such small numbers of this car, and nearly 50K more than the Cobra. I NEVER heard of 2001 Cobra's killing transmissions, and there were nearly 7K of them.

And the current HP on the Cobra is around 550HP, and the tranni is holding up to every bit of abuse I can throw at it on the track. It's a track only car as I'm an open track instructor. The RS4 is my daily driver and won't see much abuse, but I'll definitely take it out for a few hot laps on off weekends at the closest track to me.

Pics of my car.... http://www.cbslimited.com/rs4.php

Craig

Hi Craig,

Welcome and well done on your purchase of an RS4. I don't think there is a general problem with RS4 clutches. The reports throughout the last 16 months I've been a member here have been a small handful.

As with any manufacturer, they will make the clutch the weak link in the transmission as it is much cheaper and easier to replace a clutch than to replace a gearbox. I have not heard of a single B7 RS4 gearbox failure yet so the boxes have no problem.

Some early cars had an issue with the vacuum assist line which used to shut inappropriately causing a stiffness in the clutch pedal. The later-produced uprated line cured this issue. You can test for the issue by repeatedly pressing the clutch as fast as you can a few times. If the pedal goes stiff, take the car to the dealer to change the vacuum assist line.

My car has nearly 22k miles and the clutch has never slipped. I also drive it quite hard but I am quite mechanically sympathetic with my gearshifts and I don't launch it. If you launch repeatedly or shift very aggressively, the clutch will start slipping and then fail, it isn't rocket science. If you don't launch or drive aggressively and it is slipping, something is wrong, so audi should fix it on warranty.

It baffles me though why some people feel that just because they paid a lot of money for their car, it should somehow have an indestructible clutch and gearbox which should be able to handle 5k rpm launches all day long. There is NO production car that will do this reliably again and again. My M3's SMG II clutch lasted 3 launches prior to packing in and that was using the M3's launch control. A clutch and gearbox assembly is a collection of mechanical components and it has to shift a 1700kg + (with driver) weight from standstill. If you really want to do repeated launches from 5k rpm, fit a twin or triple plate clutch and be done with it. Then you have a much higher risk of damage to your gearbox and it won't be as driveable in town.

Audi have put in the best components they felt possible for the price and they had to balance the wants and needs of everybody. Some people will not be happy as they will be at the extreme ends of the scale in terms of their demands of the car (i.e. yourself). That is not audi's fault and as far as I'm concerned, if people toast their clutches doing launches or tracking a car, they should pay to replace these themselves rather expect freebies on warranty.

[jbtco]

As I recall from my M3 SMG owning days it was apparently the case (though it may have been an M3 forum myth) that BMW would not honour warranty claims if launch control had been used more than a few times.

[cmathis]

I have to tell you....after reading all this AFTER taking delivery of my RS4 (got it 1 week ago), I'm kind of floored. With not matching up to the advertised HP and Clutches burning out, I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have paid nearly 80K for this car.

I went through this with my 2001 Cobra. Ford recalled all 1999 Cobra's because they were underpowered, so they made no 2000 model (I own a 2001 model) with 320 advertised HP.

Now I order from a company I NEVER thought would falsely advertise HP figures, and every other person I come across says they are not 420HP. Now we've got a clutch issue. When you put 420 hp under the hood, you better have a tranni to hold up to it....which the Cobra did (up to 650 hp). Why would they not put a tranni able to hold up? Btw, it's not the clutch that's the problem, it's the transmission as a whole. What are the SPECS on the transmission included on our B7 RS4's? It should be able to take dumps from 5K like it's nothing. The half shafts should break before the clutch. What am I driving.... a piece of porcelain?

Sorry to vent, but as a new Audi owner, I expected much more reliability considering there are such small numbers of this car, and nearly 50K more than the Cobra. I NEVER heard of 2001 Cobra's killing transmissions, and there were nearly 7K of them.

And the current HP on the Cobra is around 550HP, and the tranni is holding up to every bit of abuse I can throw at it on the track. It's a track only car as I'm an open track instructor. The RS4 is my daily driver and won't see much abuse, but I'll definitely take it out for a few hot laps on off weekends at the closest track to me.

Pics of my car.... http://www.cbslimited.com/rs4.php

Craig

Hi Craig,

Welcome and well done on your purchase of an RS4. I don't think there is a general problem with RS4 clutches. The reports throughout the last 16 months I've been a member here have been a small handful.

As with any manufacturer, they will make the clutch the weak link in the transmission as it is much cheaper and easier to replace a clutch than to replace a gearbox. I have not heard of a single B7 RS4 gearbox failure yet so the boxes have no problem.

Some early cars had an issue with the vacuum assist line which used to shut inappropriately causing a stiffness in the clutch pedal. The later-produced uprated line cured this issue. You can test for the issue by repeatedly pressing the clutch as fast as you can a few times. If the pedal goes stiff, take the car to the dealer to change the vacuum assist line.

My car has nearly 22k miles and the clutch has never slipped. I also drive it quite hard but I am quite mechanically sympathetic with my gearshifts and I don't launch it. If you launch repeatedly or shift very aggressively, the clutch will start slipping and then fail, it isn't rocket science. If you don't launch or drive aggressively and it is slipping, something is wrong, so audi should fix it on warranty.

It baffles me though why some people feel that just because they paid a lot of money for their car, it should somehow have an indestructible clutch and gearbox which should be able to handle 5k rpm launches all day long. There is NO production car that will do this reliably again and again. My M3's SMG II clutch lasted 3 launches prior to packing in and that was using the M3's launch control. A clutch and gearbox assembly is a collection of mechanical components and it has to shift a 1700kg + (with driver) weight from standstill. If you really want to do repeated launches from 5k rpm, fit a twin or triple plate clutch and be done with it. Then you have a much higher risk of damage to your gearbox and it won't be as driveable in town.

Audi have put in the best components they felt possible for the price and they had to balance the wants and needs of everybody. Some people will not be happy as they will be at the extreme ends of the scale in terms of their demands of the car (i.e. yourself). That is not audi's fault and as far as I'm concerned, if people toast their clutches doing launches or tracking a car, they should pay to replace these themselves rather expect freebies on warranty.

I do understand your point regarding "abuse", but a few hard launches shouldn't rattle anything IMO. I do not drag race....have done it in the past, but it doesn't take much skill to point a nearly stock car in a straight line and drive it a 1/4 mile at a time.

On the other hand, if driving on a road course in the correct manner using heel/toe downshifting, etc., the car should be able to take that all day long.

I think my biggest concern are the threads being brought up about engine power, which is probably a huge concern for everyone. The reason the Cobra was recalled was an effort of the owners/attorneys. While their cars were down only about 20 HP, I'm seeing people post power figures down in the 30-40hp range. I do understand there are factors that can vary these figures like break in mileage, etc. This is still worries me.

I only have 300 miles on mine, so I wouldn't consider it ready to be put on a dyno. I'd be more than happy to do it as a baseline to see where I stand on the power issue, and do another after a few thousand miles. If there is a problem with these engines, what course of action would we need to take to get replacements or ECU upgrade, etc?

Just my thoughts....I do appreciate your response regarding the clutch issue.

Craig

[alex_123_fra]

I have to tell you....after reading all this AFTER taking delivery of my RS4 (got it 1 week ago), I'm kind of floored. With not matching up to the advertised HP and Clutches burning out, I'm starting to feel like I shouldn't have paid nearly 80K for this car.

I went through this with my 2001 Cobra. Ford recalled all 1999 Cobra's because they were underpowered, so they made no 2000 model (I own a 2001 model) with 320 advertised HP.

Now I order from a company I NEVER thought would falsely advertise HP figures, and every other person I come across says they are not 420HP. Now we've got a clutch issue. When you put 420 hp under the hood, you better have a tranni to hold up to it....which the Cobra did (up to 650 hp). Why would they not put a tranni able to hold up? Btw, it's not the clutch that's the problem, it's the transmission as a whole. What are the SPECS on the transmission included on our B7 RS4's? It should be able to take dumps from 5K like it's nothing. The half shafts should break before the clutch. What am I driving.... a piece of porcelain?

Sorry to vent, but as a new Audi owner, I expected much more reliability considering there are such small numbers of this car, and nearly 50K more than the Cobra. I NEVER heard of 2001 Cobra's killing transmissions, and there were nearly 7K of them.

And the current HP on the Cobra is around 550HP, and the tranni is holding up to every bit of abuse I can throw at it on the track. It's a track only car as I'm an open track instructor. The RS4 is my daily driver and won't see much abuse, but I'll definitely take it out for a few hot laps on off weekends at the closest track to me.

Pics of my car.... http://www.cbslimited.com/rs4.php

Craig

Hi Craig,

Welcome and well done on your purchase of an RS4. I don't think there is a general problem with RS4 clutches. The reports throughout the last 16 months I've been a member here have been a small handful.

As with any manufacturer, they will make the clutch the weak link in the transmission as it is much cheaper and easier to replace a clutch than to replace a gearbox. I have not heard of a single B7 RS4 gearbox failure yet so the boxes have no problem.

Some early cars had an issue with the vacuum assist line which used to shut inappropriately causing a stiffness in the clutch pedal. The later-produced uprated line cured this issue. You can test for the issue by repeatedly pressing the clutch as fast as you can a few times. If the pedal goes stiff, take the car to the dealer to change the vacuum assist line.

My car has nearly 22k miles and the clutch has never slipped. I also drive it quite hard but I am quite mechanically sympathetic with my gearshifts and I don't launch it. If you launch repeatedly or shift very aggressively, the clutch will start slipping and then fail, it isn't rocket science. If you don't launch or drive aggressively and it is slipping, something is wrong, so audi should fix it on warranty.

It baffles me though why some people feel that just because they paid a lot of money for their car, it should somehow have an indestructible clutch and gearbox which should be able to handle 5k rpm launches all day long. There is NO production car that will do this reliably again and again. My M3's SMG II clutch lasted 3 launches prior to packing in and that was using the M3's launch control. A clutch and gearbox assembly is a collection of mechanical components and it has to shift a 1700kg + (with driver) weight from standstill. If you really want to do repeated launches from 5k rpm, fit a twin or triple plate clutch and be done with it. Then you have a much higher risk of damage to your gearbox and it won't be as driveable in town.

Audi have put in the best components they felt possible for the price and they had to balance the wants and needs of everybody. Some people will not be happy as they will be at the extreme ends of the scale in terms of their demands of the car (i.e. yourself). That is not audi's fault and as far as I'm concerned, if people toast their clutches doing launches or tracking a car, they should pay to replace these themselves rather expect freebies on warranty.

I do understand your point regarding "abuse", but a few hard launches shouldn't rattle anything IMO. I do not drag race....have done it in the past, but it doesn't take much skill to point a nearly stock car in a straight line and drive it a 1/4 mile at a time.

On the other hand, if driving on a road course in the correct manner using heel/toe downshifting, etc., the car should be able to take that all day long.

I think my biggest concern are the threads being brought up about engine power, which is probably a huge concern for everyone. The reason the Cobra was recalled was an effort of the owners/attorneys. While their cars were down only about 20 HP, I'm seeing people post power figures down in the 30-40hp range. I do understand there are factors that can vary these figures like break in mileage, etc. This is still worries me.

I only have 300 miles on mine, so I wouldn't consider it ready to be put on a dyno. I'd be more than happy to do it as a baseline to see where I stand on the power issue, and do another after a few thousand miles. If there is a problem with these engines, what course of action would we need to take to get replacements or ECU upgrade, etc?

Just my thoughts....I do appreciate your response regarding the clutch issue.

Craig

Agreed. I think it will take a few launches without any problem, but I wouldn't like to guess how many before you start getting slippage.

I use heel and toe downshifting all the time and I think this is much kinder to the clutch/transmission than downshift engine braking. Never had any problems with the car doing this.

Re: the underpowered issue, I agree this is a concern to a lot of us. Varsity's story is prompting many more owners to dyno their cars. I'm having mine done tomorrow and I hope we can compile some comparative ATW figures rather than hazarding guesses at flywheel bhp figures. It seems the Torsen diff losses may be higher than the 24% often branded about. We'll see how it develops. I hope this issue doesn't take the fun away from your brand new car though! It really is a stunning piece of engineering.

[cmathis]

I really enjoy the car. Mine feels like it should be around mid to high 300's, but it's my first AWD car, so my butt o meter could be off a bit. Let us know how your dyno pulls turn out. Hopefully it will go well.

Don't worry, I'm driving it every opportunity I get...it's a fantastic car.

Craig