New RS4 - is it 414BHP or not!

[t_urbo]

I have to say when I first started my investigations into replacing my Audi S2, I drove a 996TT and RS4 Avant back to back on a particular day.

(The Audi and Porsche marques were the only ones I was going to consider.)

I was thoroughly unimpressed by either at the time because neither felt particularly fast. There didn't appear to be much between the cars but the RS4 felt fractionally slower than the 996TT, presumably because of the way the torque is delivered. The RS4 livened up beyond 5500rpm.

Either car was a Skoda compared to my tweaked 12R which did 0-150+ sub 10 sec.

I drove a number of 996TT's subsequently and eventually realised the car was completely impractical for what I wanted to use it for - lobbing a snowboard in the back and blasting down to the Alps, shoving two sets of scuba gear in the boot or a bunch of kite-surf gear and a tent - so the RS4 got the nod.

It so happens that, whilst I've always been a fan of the four rings, I believe I've probably got one of the best cars money can buy at the moment, almost by default.

However, as other owners have noticed, the car doesn't give the impression or sensation of being particularly rapid.

Its spiritual predecessor, the RS2, feels faster.

Which only goes to show how unreliable the butt dyno is and why owners claiming remaps (for example) feel quicker doesn't cut the mustard for me....

However, whilst it doesn't feel particularly fast, it obviously is fairly rapid judging by its relative performance against other cars at both the track and off the traffic lights...

That said, artificially restricting the car to 8250rpm (or is it 8150?) because they couldn't be bothered to sort out the heat dispersal issues at rpms beyond this is a shame, as is fitting such a car with a speed limiter.

I'm sure the car would feel even faster if it were allowed to rev towards 9000rpm as in testing.

I'm sure one of the other explanations as to why the car feels slow is that unless you've come from a Civic Type R or GT3/RS where you're familiar with keeping the revs between 6-8+K, you won't extract the best of the performance from the vehicle.

FWIW.

Agreed, although by restricting the throttle opening at low revs to 50-60% below 5500 rpm in the 1st 3 gears has not helped, after all these are the most used and hammered gears.

[rs4v8]

How to you think your "Skoda" would fair against my last car, A8 4.2 TDI sport superchipped to 380BHP, 765NM.................. blown to hell would be my guess, I sold it for a new RS4 because the RS4 is quicker, Skoda! well I give up, If one holds me in any gear I'll dump the RS and buy a ....................................

765NM? holy moly batman!! we'll be needing the batmobile! Thats crazy! your RS would be not much quicker yes?

[rs4v8]

A 747 is objectively blisteringly rapid, however how exited would you be on a London to Tokyo flight?????

Hey my old V10 Touareg can tow a 747, bet my RS4 cant do that in a hurry!!!!

Aye the tugger's a beast no doubt, not sure why you'd want to tow a 747 mind!!

[t_urbo]

The guy could be genuine. He also has the right to be a tad offended (why the need to be so offensive about the Russian people?).
As many of you have pointed out, the V8 RS4 feels slower when new. The same is probably true of the new M3. Therefore one must make allowances for this, but there is a risk that the car won't loosen up as much as you hope it will.
Naturally to try and tell a load of RS4 owners (ie enthusiasts) that these cars are not very good is not likely to be well received. But surely there is some validity in what he is saying, and doesn't that warrant some intelligent and constructive discussion?

My experience of a admittedly brief (20 mile) test drive of a B7 RS4 was disappointing. It lacked the feeling of muscular strength in the way you had to rev it to make it accelerate hard. My concept of power is effortless shove. It reminded me of a test drive in an Accord Type R.

My conclusion was this: My old RS4 will still go like stink if you don't take it to the red line in every gear, even if you bodge every gearchange. I am probably a slightly above average driver and spend most of my time driving marginally faster than average and about 15% of the time properly pressing on. For me a B7 RS4 seems like it would be disappointing. I would like to be proved wrong as I will be looking for a used replacement eventually and have no idea what to buy. I honestly think an S4 is the way to go for me.

My daily driver is a Skoda Fabia VRS. It is not fast on paper but probably frequently disappoints drivers of performance cars by almost keeping up. The idea of a much faster car having to change to two gears lower than the one I'm in just to pull away seems a bit pointless.

Another observation I would make is that many lower performance cars seem to provide 90% acceleration on part throttle and therefore seem pretty quick until you want to overtake and you then realise that the next 2/3 of throttle input doesn't do much more.

Russian M3 Dude has made a valid point, he just didn't make it very well. Performance is very subjective and in physical terms torque is power and BHP is just the multiplication of torque. A V8 RS4 is not a fast car most of the time.

And if you ask me to nip out to my car and photograph my hand in front of the badge just to prove that I own one then I can't. We don't all park outside our front doors. Similarly, it is easy for me to simply state my nationality as British (though this is too often cause for slight embarrasment) but that doesn't mean that everyone has such a clear allegiance.

At last someone chatting some sense.

[rs4v8]

did you read the whole thread? lighten up mate!!

[audijohn]

How to you think your "Skoda" would fair against my last car, A8 4.2 TDI sport superchipped to 380BHP, 765NM.................. blown to hell would be my guess, I sold it for a new RS4 because the RS4 is quicker, Skoda! well I give up, If one holds me in any gear I'll dump the RS and buy a ....................................

765NM? holy moly batman!! we'll be needing the batmobile! Thats crazy! your RS would be not much quicker yes?

In gear for gear 4/5/6 NO, below that YES
If they are side by side in a drag race, A8 away first (50Yards) there after RS all the way.

[rs4v8]

The ultimate stealth, well - until the smoke trail like a power station chuff!!

[W8PMC]

The guy could be genuine. He also has the right to be a tad offended (why the need to be so offensive about the Russian people?).
As many of you have pointed out, the V8 RS4 feels slower when new. The same is probably true of the new M3. Therefore one must make allowances for this, but there is a risk that the car won't loosen up as much as you hope it will.
Naturally to try and tell a load of RS4 owners (ie enthusiasts) that these cars are not very good is not likely to be well received. But surely there is some validity in what he is saying, and doesn't that warrant some intelligent and constructive discussion?

My experience of a admittedly brief (20 mile) test drive of a B7 RS4 was disappointing. It lacked the feeling of muscular strength in the way you had to rev it to make it accelerate hard. My concept of power is effortless shove. It reminded me of a test drive in an Accord Type R.

My conclusion was this: My old RS4 will still go like stink if you don't take it to the red line in every gear, even if you bodge every gearchange. I am probably a slightly above average driver and spend most of my time driving marginally faster than average and about 15% of the time properly pressing on. For me a B7 RS4 seems like it would be disappointing. I would like to be proved wrong as I will be looking for a used replacement eventually and have no idea what to buy. I honestly think an S4 is the way to go for me.

My daily driver is a Skoda Fabia VRS. It is not fast on paper but probably frequently disappoints drivers of performance cars by almost keeping up. The idea of a much faster car having to change to two gears lower than the one I'm in just to pull away seems a bit pointless.

Another observation I would make is that many lower performance cars seem to provide 90% acceleration on part throttle and therefore seem pretty quick until you want to overtake and you then realise that the next 2/3 of throttle input doesn't do much more.

Russian M3 Dude has made a valid point, he just didn't make it very well. Performance is very subjective and in physical terms torque is power and BHP is just the multiplication of torque. A V8 RS4 is not a fast car most of the time.

And if you ask me to nip out to my car and photograph my hand in front of the badge just to prove that I own one then I can't. We don't all park outside our front doors. Similarly, it is easy for me to simply state my nationality as British (though this is too often cause for slight embarrasment) but that doesn't mean that everyone has such a clear allegiance.

No intention of debating as some of what you say is more opinion than fact & a 20mile Test Drive is hardly enough to understand & exploit the car. Also for the record, i DO like BMW & Merc, so am not a pure Audi person. You do make some valid points though, but some of that will be car specific & in only 20miles it would be difficult to assess the better change points & engine characteristics etc.

That said, your point about gearing & other notes about acceleration are a tad off the mark, however i was not as blown away by the RS4 i test drove to compare with the one i own. But off the line & up to 120MPH, my RS4 will happily stick with a 996 Turbo & M5 (tried & tested many times), this does not make my car faster, but defo as capable.

The RS4 is not the best car in the world, but bang for buck & taking all the boxes into consideration, i don't see anything currenty to take it's crown, although for purist RWD folk the new M3 will be their best bet.

Each to their own of course & the RS4 is hardly likely to appeal to everyone, but having come from a DMS M5 & Sportec RS6, i can vouch for the RS4 being no slower than either of these cars anywhere & in certain conditions/road types (which is what i love) the RS4 is quicker. Mine however has now broken the 10K mile mark & has been re-mapped along with a Miltek cat-back fitted, so should be more fruitful than a stock demo car.

[audijohn]

The ultimate stealth, well - until the smoke trail like a power station chuff!!

[audijohn]

The guy could be genuine. He also has the right to be a tad offended (why the need to be so offensive about the Russian people?).
As many of you have pointed out, the V8 RS4 feels slower when new. The same is probably true of the new M3. Therefore one must make allowances for this, but there is a risk that the car won't loosen up as much as you hope it will.
Naturally to try and tell a load of RS4 owners (ie enthusiasts) that these cars are not very good is not likely to be well received. But surely there is some validity in what he is saying, and doesn't that warrant some intelligent and constructive discussion?

My experience of a admittedly brief (20 mile) test drive of a B7 RS4 was disappointing. It lacked the feeling of muscular strength in the way you had to rev it to make it accelerate hard. My concept of power is effortless shove. It reminded me of a test drive in an Accord Type R.

My conclusion was this: My old RS4 will still go like stink if you don't take it to the red line in every gear, even if you bodge every gearchange. I am probably a slightly above average driver and spend most of my time driving marginally faster than average and about 15% of the time properly pressing on. For me a B7 RS4 seems like it would be disappointing. I would like to be proved wrong as I will be looking for a used replacement eventually and have no idea what to buy. I honestly think an S4 is the way to go for me.

My daily driver is a Skoda Fabia VRS. It is not fast on paper but probably frequently disappoints drivers of performance cars by almost keeping up. The idea of a much faster car having to change to two gears lower than the one I'm in just to pull away seems a bit pointless.

Another observation I would make is that many lower performance cars seem to provide 90% acceleration on part throttle and therefore seem pretty quick until you want to overtake and you then realise that the next 2/3 of throttle input doesn't do much more.

Russian M3 Dude has made a valid point, he just didn't make it very well. Performance is very subjective and in physical terms torque is power and BHP is just the multiplication of torque. A V8 RS4 is not a fast car most of the time.

And if you ask me to nip out to my car and photograph my hand in front of the badge just to prove that I own one then I can't. We don't all park outside our front doors. Similarly, it is easy for me to simply state my nationality as British (though this is too often cause for slight embarrasment) but that doesn't mean that everyone has such a clear allegiance.

No intention of debating as some of what you say is more opinion than fact & a 20mile Test Drive is hardly enough to understand & exploit the car. Also for the record, i DO like BMW & Merc, so am not a pure Audi person. You do make some valid points though, but some of that will be car specific & in only 20miles it would be difficult to assess the better change points & engine characteristics etc.

That said, your point about gearing & other notes about acceleration are a tad off the mark, however i was not as blown away by the RS4 i test drove to compare with the one i own. But off the line & up to 120MPH, my RS4 will happily stick with a 996 Turbo & M5 (tried & tested many times), this does not make my car faster, but defo as capable.

The RS4 is not the best car in the world, but bang for buck & taking all the boxes into consideration, i don't see anything currenty to take it's crown, although for purist RWD folk the new M3 will be their best bet.

Each to their own of course & the RS4 is hardly likely to appeal to everyone, but having come from a DMS M5 & Sportec RS6, i can vouch for the RS4 being no slower than either of these cars anywhere & in certain conditions/road types (which is what i love) the RS4 is quicker. Mine however has now broken the 10K mile mark & has been re-mapped along with a Miltek cat-back fitted, so should be more fruitful than a stock demo car.

Well said Paul, but the Skoda TDI is a good car and stealthy also.

[SimonC]

ChrisRS4, those stats refer to in-gear times. They were part of the original marketing spiel intended to demonstrate that during normal driving it is a quick car.
I have never done a 4.8 second 0-60 time in my RS4. Apparently it involves a level of abuse that no sane driver would inflict. Similarly, on an autobahn I have approached traffic at 140mph, reduced speed to 90mph, then as the traffic has cleared I have not changed down to 3rd/4th simply to accelerate hard back to 140.
You are correct in saying that I would never be in that range in the RS4 (I did say "much the same" and "similar"- I was trying to get the gist across without excessive detail). The B5 RS4 seems to naturally sit at around 3000rpm due to the way the gears are stacked. At this engine speed, the car will pull hard if you put your foot down. If the car you overtake accelerates as you are passing it (this seems to be an automatic device on some cars, much like the magnet that holds some cars in the right hand lane on motorways) then it is nice to just push the pedal on the right down a bit harder.
Now if you have come from a 6 cylinder M3 then the V8 RS4 will no doubt seem to pull harder across the rev range.
The original topic was questioning the actual measured output of the engine and this rightly raised the question of dynamometer accuracy. Beyond that a few people mentioned that their cars just don't feel that powerful and a comparison to an inferior car was made. I think the fair thing to say is that, in traffic, in an automatic BMW 530 I can simply bury my right foot into the carpet coming off a roundabout and unless you always drive your V8 RS4 at the top 1/3rd of its power band, until I catch the car in front of me four seconds later the BMW is faster. In those snap moments an RS6 will be devastating because it combines the speed of an automatic downshift with the low-down shove of forced induction.
My interest in the B7 RS4 forum remains one of curiosity. I doubt very much that when the time comes I will be permitted a weekend evaluation of a three year old used car so apart from the stats (in terms of torque the 4.2 produces something like 90% of its maximum from very low revs, but that maximum figure was already lower than its predecessor) this forum will play a big part in the decision making process. Ultimately I think it will be a case of Hobson's choice. (3-4 years old, 30000ish miles, dog space, luggage space, understated, reliable, real-world fast, good-looking, torsen 4wd, refined)

[SimonFV8]

Anyone noticed that this all started with Russian dude and now 10 pages on there is no sign of him???? One thing is for sure he really knows how to stir things up on here!!!!

I may not know my car facts as much as a lot of you on here but i do know one thing for sure IMHO i would pick my lovely new shinny RS4 over a Skoda any day!!! javascript:emoticon(':D')

[t_urbo]

The guy could be genuine. He also has the right to be a tad offended (why the need to be so offensive about the Russian people?).
As many of you have pointed out, the V8 RS4 feels slower when new. The same is probably true of the new M3. Therefore one must make allowances for this, but there is a risk that the car won't loosen up as much as you hope it will.
Naturally to try and tell a load of RS4 owners (ie enthusiasts) that these cars are not very good is not likely to be well received. But surely there is some validity in what he is saying, and doesn't that warrant some intelligent and constructive discussion?

My experience of a admittedly brief (20 mile) test drive of a B7 RS4 was disappointing. It lacked the feeling of muscular strength in the way you had to rev it to make it accelerate hard. My concept of power is effortless shove. It reminded me of a test drive in an Accord Type R.

My conclusion was this: My old RS4 will still go like stink if you don't take it to the red line in every gear, even if you bodge every gearchange. I am probably a slightly above average driver and spend most of my time driving marginally faster than average and about 15% of the time properly pressing on. For me a B7 RS4 seems like it would be disappointing. I would like to be proved wrong as I will be looking for a used replacement eventually and have no idea what to buy. I honestly think an S4 is the way to go for me.

My daily driver is a Skoda Fabia VRS. It is not fast on paper but probably frequently disappoints drivers of performance cars by almost keeping up. The idea of a much faster car having to change to two gears lower than the one I'm in just to pull away seems a bit pointless.

Another observation I would make is that many lower performance cars seem to provide 90% acceleration on part throttle and therefore seem pretty quick until you want to overtake and you then realise that the next 2/3 of throttle input doesn't do much more.

Russian M3 Dude has made a valid point, he just didn't make it very well. Performance is very subjective and in physical terms torque is power and BHP is just the multiplication of torque. A V8 RS4 is not a fast car most of the time.

And if you ask me to nip out to my car and photograph my hand in front of the badge just to prove that I own one then I can't. We don't all park outside our front doors. Similarly, it is easy for me to simply state my nationality as British (though this is too often cause for slight embarrasment) but that doesn't mean that everyone has such a clear allegiance.

No intention of debating as some of what you say is more opinion than fact & a 20mile Test Drive is hardly enough to understand & exploit the car. Also for the record, i DO like BMW & Merc, so am not a pure Audi person. You do make some valid points though, but some of that will be car specific & in only 20miles it would be difficult to assess the better change points & engine characteristics etc.

That said, your point about gearing & other notes about acceleration are a tad off the mark, however i was not as blown away by the RS4 i test drove to compare with the one i own. But off the line & up to 120MPH, my RS4 will happily stick with a 996 Turbo & M5 (tried & tested many times), this does not make my car faster, but defo as capable.

The RS4 is not the best car in the world, but bang for buck & taking all the boxes into consideration, i don't see anything currenty to take it's crown, although for purist RWD folk the new M3 will be their best bet.

Each to their own of course & the RS4 is hardly likely to appeal to everyone, but having come from a DMS M5 & Sportec RS6, i can vouch for the RS4 being no slower than either of these cars anywhere & in certain conditions/road types (which is what i love) the RS4 is quicker. Mine however has now broken the 10K mile mark & has been re-mapped along with a Miltek cat-back fitted, so should be more fruitful than a stock demo car.

Paul, what you been smoking?

A Chipped RS4 B7 is no way quicker than a 996 TT or an M5 in a straight line to any speed let alone 120.

A std TT is 9.1 and tested to 8.9 to 100 and there are vids of M5's taking TT's in 1/4 mile stints, are you saying your RS4 B7 does 0-100 in 8.9 secs?

[rs4v8]

I wouldn't expect to be quicker than an M5 or (especially) a 911 turbo but i'd give it a good go and I doubt there would be very much in it until very silly speeds

I'd deffo have the M5 round the twisties (proven) and try having four up and luggage in the porsche ....

Allround performance car? RS4 gets my vote.....

[MEV]

The guy could be genuine. He also has the right to be a tad offended (why the need to be so offensive about the Russian people?).
As many of you have pointed out, the V8 RS4 feels slower when new. The same is probably true of the new M3. Therefore one must make allowances for this, but there is a risk that the car won't loosen up as much as you hope it will.
Naturally to try and tell a load of RS4 owners (ie enthusiasts) that these cars are not very good is not likely to be well received. But surely there is some validity in what he is saying, and doesn't that warrant some intelligent and constructive discussion?

My experience of a admittedly brief (20 mile) test drive of a B7 RS4 was disappointing. It lacked the feeling of muscular strength in the way you had to rev it to make it accelerate hard. My concept of power is effortless shove. It reminded me of a test drive in an Accord Type R.

My conclusion was this: My old RS4 will still go like stink if you don't take it to the red line in every gear, even if you bodge every gearchange. I am probably a slightly above average driver and spend most of my time driving marginally faster than average and about 15% of the time properly pressing on. For me a B7 RS4 seems like it would be disappointing. I would like to be proved wrong as I will be looking for a used replacement eventually and have no idea what to buy. I honestly think an S4 is the way to go for me.

My daily driver is a Skoda Fabia VRS. It is not fast on paper but probably frequently disappoints drivers of performance cars by almost keeping up. The idea of a much faster car having to change to two gears lower than the one I'm in just to pull away seems a bit pointless.

Another observation I would make is that many lower performance cars seem to provide 90% acceleration on part throttle and therefore seem pretty quick until you want to overtake and you then realise that the next 2/3 of throttle input doesn't do much more.

Russian M3 Dude has made a valid point, he just didn't make it very well. Performance is very subjective and in physical terms torque is power and BHP is just the multiplication of torque. A V8 RS4 is not a fast car most of the time.

And if you ask me to nip out to my car and photograph my hand in front of the badge just to prove that I own one then I can't. We don't all park outside our front doors. Similarly, it is easy for me to simply state my nationality as British (though this is too often cause for slight embarrasment) but that doesn't mean that everyone has such a clear allegiance.

I agree with most of what you say, performance is subjective and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Its just that some people change theirs very frequently!!

Please don't go down the prejudice / racist path either. This is a bit of banter, the same way the welsh are getting it and hell, I'm from scotland, feel free to give me a hard time!! Furthermore I'm working in russia and have many russian friends..

IMHO I personally feel the RS4 is one of the best allround performance cars available today, at any price, and it feels pretty quick most of the time to me!

By coincidence, I was in a fabia vrs (diesel) recently and was extremely impressed (and quite surprised!) actually with its pace, handling, build and general feel of quality.

However, and you may not like this bit, while you may feel like you are going fast, I'll be leaving you behind (in any gear you want). sorry but thats a fact regardless of how fast the Audi feels in the drivers seat. There are indeed cars quicker and (first to admit ) even more desirable than a B7 RS4 and I'm the first to admit this too, a decent lottey win would see a whole collection of exotica but I'm delighted with mine as I'm sure you will be if you chose to get one in the future.

I would very much like to try the previous RS4 and maybe one day I'll get the chance to compare, the same with the new M3 and M5 for that matter as these seem to be the main RS4 competitors. I had an E46 M3 before and my new car is quicker.

I hope this doesn't sound too condecending it really isn't meant to be. It's meant to be the intelligent argument bit you were mentioning.. Something that some people (most people here will know who I mean)can't quite manage...

I agree with this.. Ol Rusky made his bed by talking complete cack and then continuously contradicting himself throughout the thread. He also has a habit of doing it elsewhere hence his identity crisis. Nice phots by the way, whose car you washing?

In terms of "feeling slower when new" Again one could be forgiven that it is the case. All new cars have this and take time to loosen up buuuuut and you're quote about having a go in a B5 to compare is relevant and interesting as I’ve been doing it all week! The main difference here all gear ratios, driver ability, tech detail etc to one side, is delivery.
Having had a well run in B5 100k on the clock with 420hp ( which I loved) up to last week and swapping for a b7 I can vouch that the B5 does in deed "feel" quicker because of the twin T's sending you into the back of the seat whilst the V8 delivers that lovely linear power. The gear box and suspension are obviously a lot better now (in fact the best gear box I've ever used) B7 against a remapped B5 is as quick if not quicker for sure especially top end and If you take a glance down you’re actually see that you are going a hell of lot quicker than you feel in a b7 and that is just awesome IMO.

Now having had 2 M3's in the past and now 2 Rs4's I can absolutely guarantee there is no contest throughout the models. IMHO. M3's are suited to aggressive type drivers who continuously want to thrash an engine to get any thing from it. E46 - It sounds v tinny like the manifold has blown and I grew to hate it after a while. As for the new one, v8 ( hopefully sounds better) but cant comment as haven’t driven one yet and no inclination to do so but then again, why would I want to I'm sure Russian dude can tell us all about it.